GregP

I wonder if it was MDF, or HDF (if such a thing exists). MDF is "Medium Density Fibreboard". It doesn't come in varying hardness. While I have no doubt that you've owned a strat made of some sort of particleboard or other 'synthetic' wood, I'd be surprised if it was true MDF. In a recent thread, people were saying that even basswood is pretty soft for many applications. I can say without certainty but with confidence that MDF will be softer than basswood by a considerable amount. On the other hand, I really don't know for sure. For $10-15 more than the cost of the MDF, I'd rather make my guitar out of alder just to be safe. That's just an opinion, and others are welcome to have another perspective. Greg

It's definitely worthwhile for YOUR practice; however, what I mean is that even with basic, regular use, it will start to fall apart. I know you're not planning on it as a lifetime guitar, but MDF is quite soft, indeed. The tension on the neck pocket once it's strung would rip it apart instantly, and that's if you could even make a neck pocket to begin with. Just as an example... let's say I took a wood screw and screwed it halfway into the MDF. If I clamped a set of vice grips onto the screw and yanked pretty hard, the threads of the screw would act like a 'file' and I could probably rip it out of the MDF with main force, leaving a stripped hole behind. If you 'score' MDF, you can break it without too much difficulty. All of the screws and routing would make it only barely stronger than stiff cardboard. My suggestion is to get some MDF and start making templates with it. That'll give you a feel for your tools (even though each wood will still feel different) and at the same time provide you with a useful end-product. If you're keen on making a practice guitar for your friend, it shouldn't be TOO expensive to get some sort of inexpensive hardwood either at your local wood source or on eBay. Greg

I've never been one for whammy acrobatics, but the Speedloader has the added benefit of quick and easy string changes. Speaking of smart, good move on B.C. Rich's part to continue having a headstock in order to balance out the aesthetics. I'm pretty much sold on these things-- it's just a matter of which project to use it on, and when I'll get the chance and money for it. Greg

I don't know what it sounds like, but I can tell you that anything that's screwed in will inevitably tear loose and ruin the guitar. It'd be just a matter of time. Of course, not having actually DONE it, that's just a very strong opinion, based on the huge amount of MDF I've been working with lately. Greg

Yes! Actually, although I said the word "glasses" I am in fact using goggles. With glasses I would still feel a bit vulnerable. Thanks for the comment, btw; I hadn't seen it as we must've been posting at the same time. Greg PS, mdw3332-- how's the guitar coming?

I hadn't noticed, but you may be right. I'd be curious to see it from another angle, so that we can better judge if it's an illusion or not. Greg

Note: A few more things I haven't mentioned until now, but are VERY important: 1. Always wear safety glasses. I should also be wearing safer clothing, but I never do without the glasses. 2. Use earplugs if you have them. I worked the first time without, and the high-pitched whine of the router made my ears ring for the night. I quickly got some earplugs. 3. ALWAYS unplug your power equipment before fiddling with things. Like when I was sanding the bit, or when I tighten the collet up. I ALWAYS ALWAYS unplug my router.

I haven't deepened or widened the chambers yet, but I don't know if I will. I weighed it again (er, on a bathroom scale... first me, then me with the guitar, then finding the difference) and it's about 5-6 pounds, depending on the accuracy of the scale. That's tolerable, and there's still the carve and contouring to do. You'll note that the neck still is randomly-sized hunks of wood. I haven't bothered cleaning up that area because I'm not sure how much wood I'll need for the neck pocket. On the maple, I think I went too thin, but since it's the top I'm not too worried. I left it a bit chunkier on the limba, and I'll see what I need later. The two halves: And again, but together. You can see that the 'gap' I was worried about before is very small indeed, and I have the utmost confidence that carpenter's glue will hold it down without any problems whatsoever: Still haven't routed the channel for the electronics. That'll be next. Then the truss rod channel and making a neck template. Oh, I almost forgot-- it's not a Greg post without a bit of a mishap. I noticed that my router bit was leaving some sort of mark near the bottom... a burn line? Some of the red paint? I didn't know, so I looked at the bit. It seemed to have been chipped, and the small bit missing had accumulated gunk. I took some 400-grit sandpaper and cleaned it up as much as possible, being VERY careful not to mess with the cutting edge. In good news, though, using more conservative passes worked out for me, and the bit didn't come loose in the collet once! Greg

Thanks, Slaughthammer! Here are some pics. I took fewer for this stage, because they were all just variations on a them. Here's what I did: Because I haven't been using the exact same template all along (see the rest of the thread), I returned to the maple top as my template for finishing the outside of the limba part. I already had holes in the maple AND in the limba, due to past stages of the build, so I didn't need to drill anything new. I screwed the maple to the limba, and did my usual routing thing. Where things got different was that after my first series of passes (I couldn't do the full 1.75" of limba at once, as my router wouldn't go that deep. And nor did I want to, after past mishaps!) I had to remove the maple top in order to accomodate the depth of my router. I used the first 'pass' as the guide for the ball bearing, which is the obvious way to do things. However, you might remember from yesterday that I had a problem with the router's stability travelling along the 'walls' of the chambers. To compensate for this, I filled in the chamber with scrap pieces of wood that were only about a millimetre shorter than the chamber. At least if my router slipped or I had a lapse, the damage would be minimal:

Amazing. Weren't we just looking at mock-ups of the prototype a week ago? It really came together, and the final product looks even better than I imagined it wood (sic). Greg

Except us!

Nope, but I'm going to go finish routing the outside of the body. Then I'll have to sit down with my diagram again and figure out where to rout the channel for the humbuckers' wires to get to the electronics cavity. I won't be routing the actual pickup cavities yet, as I'd rather have the top attached first; however, I should be able to rout a channel through where both cavities WILL be, and leading up to the control cavity. If anyone has any tips related to THAT aspect of things, I'd welcome them. Otherwise I'll just end up routing a channel 1/4" deep and as wide as the router bit. It'll be a WEE bit big, but I'm hoping that'll make slipping the wires through a less 'fiddly' affair. Greg

Wes-- He really DOES look like it. <laff> I'm glad the thread's been informative for people. It's like a cavalcade of 'what not to dos' or something, though. Although I guess the message ultimately is, "Oops, here's one way I did it wrong, but I realized that _____ would be a better way." Greg

And here's the body, chambered but probably not at its "final" chambered state, as I think I can safely remove more wood than this. Any suggestions and recommendations are still welcome for depth, though I'm pretty well decided on going to 3/4" wide at the walls instead of 1". I had previously discussed that issue, and had already decided on 3/4", but when it came down to it I played it safe to begin with. Keep in mind that if the body looks a bit funny still, it's because I haven't gotten around to doing the outside edges; the body's still not to final shape. Cheers, Greg

Next, I just needed to remove the wood inside the chamber with the router. Easy, right? Bah! First off, I set the bit too deep. I thought I could do it in 3 passes, which I probably could have... but my first setting was more like HALF the depth. As I was going, I think somewhere in the periphery of my thoughts I was aware that it didn't 'feel' quite right, but I kept going. I had never tried such a thing before, so I just figured it was par for the course when a powerful router is gouging out chunks of wood. But no, things were not normal. Since I was looking at the bit (well, as best I could, the router isn't well designed for visual work), I saw right away that it was coming out of the collet. And when I say coming out, I mean it was going NOW. Not later, not even in a second. I had a split-second of reaction time, and I did not necessarily rise to the challenge. In that brief moment, I thought that hitting the 'off' switch would end up in unpleasantness as the router was ripped out of my hands or something. So, I quickly took the router out of the wood, intending to hit 'off' immediately. But my instinctive fear of being near sharp rotating things that were about to go flying caused me to set the router down atop the bench, and quickly duck under said bench, curling up into a ball and shielding my head. I reached over to where the router was plugged in, and took the plug out. As I stood, I saw that the router bit HAD indeed come out completely; however, it was sitting peacefully within the chambered area. What I realized for the rest of the day was this: 1. My router sucks, and no amount of tightening will get the collet to clamp down on that bit properly. 2. Such problems are exascerbated by trying to take out too much wood at once. It's a much happier bit with shallow passes. Mere moments later, I was routing and saw this: In an unrelated problem, a screw from the... whatever you call it... shield? Guide? I dunno! had come loose. I was thankful it hadn't encountered the spinning router blade. Turned off the router, and this time tightened EVERYTHING up. A few other mishaps and a revelation: -In the widest part of the large chambers, I have to rest the router on either the center block OR the outside, for it cannot rest on both. During the 'transition' moment, it's hard to keep the router perfectly level, and so I have a few areas where it's got a bit of an uneven 'gouge' in it... not deep, but noticeable. -Before noticing just how badly the bit was slipping, I routed a bit deeper than planned in the chamber where the electronics will go. I guess that's semi-fortunate, since that wood's going to be removed anyhow. -When I started the third chamber, I realized that I didn't really need to pre-drill a hole. This may be considered BAD ADVICE, so it's not advice at all-- but as long as you're going fairly shallow, all you have to do is have a nice firm grip, and ease the router bit into the wood at a wee bit of an angle, and then straighten out the angle until the router is sitting level on your template. Much quicker than farting around with a drill and a dremel, though if you have a forstner bit, doing a bunch of swiss cheese will save you a lot of effort and agony, I imagine. Any time I adjusted the router depth, I double checked with my reference line. Here's me setting it for the deepest rout:

Next, I attached the template to the Limba using wood screws. This time I created a proper counter-sink, clamped 'er up, drilled small guide holes, and THEN attached the template to the limba with wood screws. See? I've learned from my mistakes before even getting to the next project! Because I was unsure of depth (nobody had answered my thread at that point in time) I decided to play it safe and leave a half-inch. I measured it on the outside of the limba, and marked a drill bit with tape so that I could get the right depth: I then drilled a hole that deep into a chamber, which would serve as a redundant reference point (the main router depth will still be measured on the outside, using the same line). I MAINLY put it there so that I could use it as the 'starting hole' for the router. I don't have a Forstner bit, so I had just resolved to do it all with the router. Hopefully I don't kill the bit. Here's the hole being drilled: The drill bit wasn't big enough to accomodate the router bit, so I widened it up with the Dremel:

Now, I've got TONNES of excess wood, due to my inaccurate scroll saw work. Since I had regained my senses, I elected to not do it freehand. I tried the Dremel tool a bit, but found it a bit wild, so I devised the following strategy, which worked out OK: 1. Use rasps (yay, curved MicroPlane!) and files to take down a lot of MDF quickly. 2. Once I got close to the lines, I took out the Dremel with mini cutting attachment (and cutting blade... a router bit would have been better, but I didn't have one), and VERY CAREFULLY ran it just barely touching the edges, so that it would help square things up. 3. Using a bit of sandpaper, I smoothed the whole thing out. To be honest with you, if I wanted perfection I could have done more work; however, I was getting impatient. Along with the tools of the trade, here's the finished template:

Now, the router would still come in handy. In each of the 4 chambers, there's at least one edge (well, not at least.. there's ONLY one edge in each!) that runs along a STRAIGHT line. For each, I clamped a piece of scrap wood along where the line should be, to use as a makeshift guide for the router. Since the router bit's ball bearing will ride along the scrap wood, the cut should end up perfect. No, I do NOT hold my router like that. It's powered down and in fact unplugged for the photo. You'll notice a line I put on the scrap piece of wood. This is just quick and dirty way of showing where the router should begin, and where I should end. When I see that line come out on the other side of the router, I'll know I've basically gone far enough. Here's the first chamber with the straight edge cut:

Next, I needed to get rid of all the MDF on the template where the chambers will be routed. What better way to hack through MDF than with a router, right? Heck, I could even do it freehand if I wanted to! Clamp, drill a hole to 'start'... Grab the router, and then look at it one more time. Thankfully, common sense prevails and I think to myself, "What the HELL am I thinking??? That will create a HEAP of dust, and won't be accurate!!!" I must have taken leave of my senses, but I reclaimed them in time. I drilled 3 more holes, one in each chamber. Then I unclamped it and brought it over to my good friend the scroll saw, which was the obvious choice all along. For those who have never used a powered scroll saw, it's a thin blade held between two points, and it oscillates up and down at variable speeds. It's pretty accurate if you're good, can handle fairly tough wood (not that I had to worry with MDF), and is designed to allow a fairly large chunk of wood to go all around and about without hitting up against poorly-placed edges. Anyhow, the 4 holes were needed because I had to unhook the blade, pass it through each hole, reattach the blade, then make the cuts: It's important to adjust that little black nozzle... it spits out enough air to keep the blade area free from dust and allow proper visibility for the line you're cutting. Note that while scroll saws CAN be accurate, I suck with them.

Whilst waiting for stuff to arrive, I went ahead and chambered the limba. I don't think it's done yet, as I'll likely widen and deepen the chambers to lighten 'er up even more. Keep in mind that I never intended the hollow chambers to add to resonance or anything like that-- I just wanted a lighter guitar. You may remember from a few pages ago that when routing my maple top, I routed one side first, then flipped the template and routed the other. That produced a symmetrical maple board, which I sanded down a bit and 'fixed' up even more. Since the maple was now better than the original template, I decided to use the top to create a new MDF template from which I would make my chambering pattern / template, rather than dicking around with the old one that wasn't the right shape any more. MDF is fairly cheap, and this stuff was "free" (for me, at least!) since I yoinked it from my father. I'll need to buy more for the neck template, so I'll find out exactly how much it costs then. I think most of you have the idea how to rout FROM a template... this is the same thing, except that I'm going in reverse... using the maple top (originally made from a template!) to create a new template. I won't give you the boring details, but I came up with this: Which is a newly 'perfectly symmetrical' template with a centre line that perfectly matches the maple top's. I feel like I've gotten back on track now! Next, I figured out where I wanted my chambers. I'm still not 100% sure I shouldn't have something hollowed out along that long, wide centre block somewhere... lots of wood there! I'm worried about losing structural stability and sustain, tone, etc. if I go too crazy. One thing I forgot to mention is that I was originally going to rout it all freehand. If you look at the limba on the right in the following picture, you'll see the original pattern I was going to rout out. The MDF on the left shows the final pattern, which I think looks spiffy (though nobody but me will know the difference) as well as adds a bit of extra wood where the humbucker mounting rings will be drilled. Not that it matters. Apologies to those with bad eyes or bad monitors... the drawn lines aren't particularly dark.

Disagree! Rosewood rules the Strativerse. Greg

I don't know if the upper horn is a wee too big or just a wee bit off-angle. I wonder if rotating it another 1 degree toward the fretboard would do the trick. However, it's a truly fine piece of work. Even just sketching 'new' ideas out, mine turn out like crap, so I'm probably going to stick to 'classic' designs for a good long while. Yours, however, is edgy without losing any class. Top notch work. Greg

Beats me, dude. I have no other limba to compare it to. The body shape is fairly large... not quite a Lucille, but as a Lucy, she ain't small either. Imagine what she'd way if I hadn't thickness planed her down from 2" to 1.75"? Greg

Harder? Likely. TOO hard? Nah. Not that I've built one, but my project is basically a thinline-style guitar (not tele, obviously) and although I've had to learn a bit about the extra steps, it doesn't strike me as a 'harder' project but definitely as one with more steps and more things to be meticulous about. To be honest with you, though, I'm already looking forward to building a plain old PLANK of a guitar, so you might find a regular telecaster satisfying. Greg

I was thinking 1/4" sounded about right. The way it is right now, once all the hardware is on, plus finishing materials, it'll weigh in at around 9 lbs, which is about the same as a heavyish Les Paul. A bit TOO heavy for my liking, but not unheard of. Greg