avengers63

DISCLAIMER: I'm only repeating information from Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood Finishing". I may not be repeating 100% of the info, but I will do my best. You are highly encouraged to drop the $30 on the book if you have any serious desire to get into wood finishing. The info in the book and the finishing voodoo that is debunked is invaluable. These are all answered with the understanding that you'lll be finishing a guitar. If it's being done on other pieces, some of this can change. With a guitar, it's generally desirable to have a flat, uniform, glass-smooth finish. If that's not what you want, a lot of this goes right out the window. For discussion purposes, let's use the premsie that you're going for a traditionally smooth guitar finish. First, let's make sure that you understand the reason you finish the wood: protection. A hard barrier finish protects the wood from damage and signifigantly slows the exchange of water vapor. Water is the enemy of wood. SANDING SEALER: You don't need to use sanding sealer. You can use it without hurting anything, but it isn't needed. Each and every type of wood finish that offers a protective barrier against moisture and damage will effectively seal the wood. Therefore, an extra layer of sealer is not necessary. In many cases, products labled as "Sanding Sealer" are thinned finish with a soap added to aid in the sanding. This soap makes the finish turn into a powder when sanded, making the process easier. Unfortunately, this soap can prevent the top finish from sticking. (Bob doesn't tell us which combos are bad.) If you're going to seal the wood anyway, Bob suggests using a thinned down coat of whichever finish will be used. This is also called a washcoat. GRAIN FILLER: The purpose of filling the grain is purely asthetic. I repeat: there is NO structural benefit to filling the grain. For guitars, however, it's sometimes necessary so the finish will be smooth. It all depends on the wood. If it's open-grained, you need to fill it. If not, you don't. End of story. This applies regardless of if you're painting, staining, or going clear. Some people say Sanding Sealer can be used as a grain filler. Others swear that wetsanding with Tru-Oil does the trick. I haven't done either of these, so I can't testify to these methods. PAINTING: Consider painting like an extra layer of finish for a second. If the wood isn't smooth to begin with, the finish won't be smooth. Paint won't be either. Once the grain is filled, if it needs to be at all, you can go right to primer. You don't need to seal the wood at all. You'll end up with primer, paint, then the clear coat. Whatever moisture that can get through all of that deserves to.

With the first PRS body winding down, I centered in on what the next body will be: an LP. I know... some of y'all gripe about all of the PRS, Tele, Strat, and LP copies out there. Deal with it. I have some white limba for the base. It's 1" thick and 8" wide, so a 2 piece base is in order. The top is what I'm calling 'double bookmatched' zebrawood. I had a 2" thick 18" long piece of zebrawood which I split down the middle, then split those as well. There was some drift with the bandsaw blade I USED to have on there so after planing them all down to a uniform size, it'll end up 5/8" thick. Sandwiched between then will be a layer of mahogany. This is for two reasons: 1) color variation. The limba & zebrano are pretty close in color, so a pinstripe will add some visual interest. 2) thickness padding. Without the extra, the piece would only be 1-5/8" thick. With this padding, it'll be pushed up to 1-13/16". That small ammount makes me a LOT more comfortable. Here goes nothing!

How is that router working out for you? I was looking at picking that up in a week or two because I like the idea of the router matched to the table and I will still be able to have my other one for freehand stuff. For my purposes, it's a great little setup. The table doesn't have a huge surface area, but it's plenty big enough for small projects like bodies. The router attaches woth three big screws, so getting it on & off is very easy. The table has a simple mechanism to raise & lower the router as well, so height adjustment is a snap. The same mechanism works when using it freehand, so it has a limited plunge capabilities as well. They don't pretend to be contractor-level quality, so don't be surprised when you find plastic pieces where metal would be better. They're inexpensive, entry-level hobbiest tools. With that in mind, Ryobi really goes out of their wat to give the customer their money's worth. The 10" band saw I have has features that don't come standard on expensive 14" saws. Overall, I'm extremely pleased with their quality and value - plenty of bang for the buck.

This isn't looking too bad. I have toe shop rag covering a pair of small blowouts I had with the router. I'm not gonna show them to you until I try and fix them. If I can't fix them to my satisfaction, I may end up keeping this one afterall. Despite the fact that the top isn't bookmatched, I think it looks dang nice. There are some great color variations coming through - greens, bright reds, and warm browns.

Got a little overzealous with the paint. Of well. I'll sand down the runs and go a bit slower. At least there's progress.

I told you I was going to paint it blue.

I have no idea what a "real" buffer setup would be, but for someone working on a budget, $20 can't be beat. The 10" model was $25, but I don't need one that big.

This afternoon, I bought a Ryobi 6" random-obiting buffer with a 4800 OPM rate. I want to buff my finishes to a mirror sheen with some Meguiars swirl remover, but I've never used a power buffer before. Any suggestions?

I like the idea of using figured wood for the F/B inlays. With this top, though, I don't think it's working. I'm all for color contrast, but there's nothing to tie the inliays into the body. Is it too late to tape off the blocks and dye them to match the top?

My Lord.... It that's scrap, throw some away into MY bin! That's just gorgeous.

Yea... it's pretty easy to see which of us don't have a lot to do at work, huh.

I bought a 10" Ryobi bandsaw. For my purposes, I'm pleased with it's performance. The only thing I'm not pleased with is that it can only re-saw 4" stock. I really would like to have a larger saw, but that's the only reason. In fact, I'm extremely pleased with Ryobi's quality overall. I cuttently have 5 ryobi tools and am pleased wil everything save for the rip fence on the table saw. I would compare them with Peavy or Yamaha: great entry-level pieces which will adequately get the job done. That being said, I won't pretend they're anything other than entry level. If I had the money, I'd have bought other brands of saws. Lastly, I would encourage you to get a different blade right away. The one that comes with the cheap-o economy saws is junk.

After losing their forward momentum from the propellant, they fall listfully to the ground. And the table. And the chair. And anything else in the room. But that takes a while. They hang in the air for a while. Both. Chemicals aren't healthy to breathe. They get into your bloodstream through your lungs. The paint/lacquer, however, will just collect in your lungs. Wear a mask. Hard to tell. There are a lot of variables, like ventilation, ammount of particles in the air, humidity, etc. Yes. In fact, that's one way to check if the piece is cured: If you can still smell the finish, it isn't done yet. There's nothing more useful or important for your safety than good sense. If it seems that it'd be a bad idea, then it probably is. Aside from the glove (for finishing) or the safety shoes, it's your call if you dork up your clothes or not. For finishing, it's VERY importnat that the area be well ventilated. I use rattle cans for color and brushes for the clear-coat as well. When ever I spray, I take it outside. Make sure to lay down a tarp of some kind, or your spray area will slowly become tinted with whatever colors you use. After the item itself is sprayed, you can bring it inside. Fumes won't be an issue, as you're leaving them outside. When I'm brishing/wiping on a finish, I'll admit that I don't do it outside, but I DO leave the room for the day when I'm done. I hope this helps.

Welcome to the club, and say goodbye to all of your free time and disposable income. I agree. It's much easier to play guitar when you have all of your fingers. I use the disposable ones, so I can't comment on the cartridge respirators. I'd rather have a better mask, but this is what I have for now. Right. I would heavily advise getting tools that have dust bags attached already. If they don't have one, look for ones that can have them attached with aftermarket add-ons or be attached to a dust collection system. As for dust collection, there are a dozen ways you can go. Just remember that NO system will get 100% of the dust. For me, I bought a $40 shop-vac whos hose attaches to the dust ports of the various machines. It's also pretty useful for vaccuming the top of the workbench.

I'll add to the observations here: I think this is one of the longest threads I've seen on various forums covering various topics which introduces a seemingly radical concept yet not one single person has come remotely close to starting a flame. In fact, it's been just the opposite: everyone has something positive, encouraging, insightful, or otherwise helpful to say. Bravo, gentlemen. I'm proud of all of you.

FWIW: I bought a combo kit from Ryobi at Home Depot. It had a 1.5hp router (1/4" collet) and a small router table for $100. If you had a 1/2" shaft router before, this obviously won't do you any good, but here it is anyway.

sniff sniff But I gotta start somewhere. (j/k)

Hey, thanks a bunch. I think you nailed down the species. I looked up chechen on a few different sites. The prices I found had an average of $10.75/bf. This particular piece was 48x8x1 rough cut, or 2.66bf. I paid $23.42 including shipping, so I was in line with the average market value of $28.66, but didn't have to leave the house. Just because I'm a little OCD: I used 34 of the 48 lineal inches for the top, or 71% of the lumber, so the literal investment is $20.33. The remaining +/- 13 inches will be used in other projects, probably a box, so I don't consider the rest as a loss or scrap. Also, I was very careful when I cut the top to shape, so I'll be able to use the pieces that came from the skinny areas of the body, recouping an un-defined percentage of the cost - probably about 25-30 sq. in., or about $4.50-$4.75, reducing the actual cost of the top to $15 or so. And THAT, my friends, is being cheap in a good way.

I was more than a little optomistic and more than a little forgetful when I said I'd have it painted up by last weekend. My kids were with me from 29-June through 7-June for some Summer visitation. When they're with me, I don't get ANYTHING done; it all gets pushed aside. Priorities... you know. Anyway, it's finally primered up. I should be able to sand it down tomorrow night and get to the painting.

The blades from Sun Belt came in Monday. As I expected, the blade that came with the saw was junk. I went by the spec sheet in the instructions, the spec sheet on the website, and the spec sheet inside the saw itself and ordered 67" blades. They're REALLY snug. So snug I had some issues wrangling them onto the wheels. Next time, it'll be 67.5". What dorked up the first blade was trying to resaw some 4" wide 2" thick zebrawood. Also, the blade had a tendancy to drift. I did adjust the guide wheels as best as they can be, but it wanted to drift anyway. As the original blade was 1/4", I put on a 1/2" blade and tried it out on the zebrawood that ate the other one. I figured "If it won't do the job, I better find out now". I fed the wood through SLOWLY because 1) it hadn't been broken in yet and 2) zebrano is kinda hard. It went through the wood straight as an arrow. I'm pleased. Again, I don't know what this is worth to you, but the fact is that the blade worked extremely well on my reconditioned $140 Ryobi bandsaw when resawing a 4" wide 22" long piece of zebrano. As for customer service, I ordered the blades on 30-June, and they came in on 7-July. An email notification was sent out 2-July noting the order had been shipped. Factoring in a mailing holiday (4-July), the turnaround time was very reasonable for made-to-order blades. For price, 4 67" flex-back blades, 2 1/4" 4TIP & 2 1/2" 3TPI, came to the mid-$40's including shipping. I hope this information is helpful.

And I was just being silly. Do whatcha gotta do, brutha. When I get on a soapbox, I tend to drive the point right into the ground too.

Anyone who was following this thread knows what these pics are all about. If not, we'll wait until you catch up with the rest of the crowd. Polite pause. OK, here goes. After I glued up the halves and planed them level, I discovered this 2" thick stock was onlt 1.5" to begin with. Grrrr. The test was already skewed. After looking at it for a couple of minutes, I decided to do the whole thing as a practice training exercise. Goodness knows I really need the practice at this point. So, I took off my annoyance and put on some enthusiasm. I cut out the blank outline, routed it down to size with the template, and diagramed out the neck pocket, pups, and bridge line. After that, I made outlines os where the peaks of the carves would be. I then took the body to the drill press and made dwpth-marking holes around the edge. I picked up this trick from someone's thread here. Thanks, mystery man! I clamped the body down to the table and declared "Say hello to my lil frin'!"... then attacked it with my angle grinder. No, I don't get out much. The only parts I had any issue with were the bits around the neck pocket (go figure) and the bass side of the body where the grain is really far apart. The neck pocket is self-explanitory why there were issues. The wide parts sanded unevenly. This should have been expected. Grain lines are more dense than the growth in between. Fortunately, this all evened out with the palm sander. In fact, most of the uneven-ness smoothed out like that. There were just a few small bits I needed to do by hand. http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/av...dy%201/pt04.jpg http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/av...dy%201/pt05.jpg http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/av...dy%201/pt06.jpg Please note that these pics are after the angle grinder but before the palm sander. A few ripples may be seen, but they have been leveled out. Overall, I'm extremely satisfied with the results. There were a few things that could really only be learned by doing it and others that were re-enforced (like the space between the grain). The actual carving was very easy. I was quite surprised. After doing this, I'm confident that the carve on the "real" body will go well. And speaking of the "real" body... I think the rosewood top looks pretty good. While it isn't bookatched, I think it really has the illusion of being so. A lot of the grain lined up nicely.

ROCK ON!!!!! I was wondering if anyone was going to take up the unspoken gauntlet. I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how this sounds. Gee, I wonder if he'll go with a natural finish or if he'll paint it?

If you want to see my progress, take a look at this thread.

Amen brutha! $5 for 3-4 test blanks that can then be used as templates... sounds like a no-brainer to me!