avengers63

No, Supernova, I ain't mad at ya. I'd be a fool to ask for input and expect only positive comments. You're dead on in a few areas, but way off in many others. It seems that you've clumped me in with other people you've encountered, given me similat charactistics, and are responding to me the way you )presumably) do to them. To that end, you've either mis-heard what I've said or put words into my mouth that weren't there. Please rememner: I'm NOT mad at you, nor am I starting a flame war. This is just discussion. I come off badly someties, so i don't want there to be any unintentional hard feelings. Cool? I suppose you could interprit my statement as making practice bodies. That wasn't what I was meaning, but I can see it. MY first body has a number of mistakes which are learned by doing, but it's plenty good enough for me. I wouldn't have any ethical issue selling it because it's the very best I'm capable of doing. Likewise, any subsequent bodies I make will be the very best I'm capable of doing... at that time. Like anyone else, I'll only get better with experience. So, is it good enough to keep? Sure it is. I just don't want to. You're almost there. It's the only luthier work. I'm engaged in other woodworking projects as well. You are 100% correct, though, in that the redesign is my first body from raw wood. Your wording seems dismissive. I hope that wan't the case, but that's the way it came across. I never said I don't have the money on-hand. I said I'm wanting to use the sale of bodies to fund my hobby. I don't want to divert any more fund from the house into my personal enjoyment. It's not fair to my family. Household income needs to go to the house, not just one person. Diverting significant ammounts of the household income into my exclusive, personal use is just greedy and selfish. So... I want to be self-sustaining. I recently got out of another hobby: tabletop wargaming. Warhammer40K, to be specific. I had/have a HUGE ammount of stuff, with a lot still left. I've been selling it off on eBay to generate the funds needed to buy my bandsaw, table saw, drill press, router & table w/ bits, belt sander, planar, 18v cordless drill, angle grinder, shop-vac, and dovetail jig. All that's left is a small jointer and a biscuit joiner, which I'm working on right now. Nope. Even at this early stage, I fully feel that the PRS body will be worth well over $100. I most likely won't get it, though, because I have no reputation yet. My long-term goal is to have bodies as slick as that tele. (BTW: It went for $170) Obviously, I'm not there yet. Sooner or later I will be, but I have to go through the learning steps to get there. Note also that you contradicted yourself in back-to-back sentences. You first quote my figure of $65-$80, then claim I'm shooting for $40. If you were looking at my proposed profit, then I apologize for the mis-interpritation. I've been buying & selling on eBay for eight years, including a storefront when I had an on-line lingerie store. Making a real ammount of money on eBay is NOT as easy as some people think. I know as well as anyone that you'll NEVER get what an item is worth there because, as eBay buyers, we're cheap. If we wanted to pay full price, we'd go somewhere else. You ARE right in that it's much easier to sell one or two items there than locally. The local guitar scene is dominated by two stores: a Guirat Center and a very large, well known, established local store. Neither are available for me to sell a body by consignment. What IS available is a small shop across from my subdivision that focuses on grade-school band instrument rental & instruction, but has some guitars as well. I've talked with him and he's willing to take a completed guitar from me on consignmnet. So, I DO have other options, but they require a bigger investment than I'm willing to make right now. Another reason to sell some bodies first. You're entitled to your opinion. Others, like myself, disagree. I remember seeing a post here saying they liked when the grains didn't match up 100%. Take a look at the 50's Les Pauls, Strats, and Teles. None of their grains matched up. Even some of the early flamed-top LPs weren't bookmatched. Now look at current the "standard" LP, Strat, & Tele models. They're not matched up either. Just sayin, that's all. In any event, I do appreciate your comments and concerns. Thanks for caring enough about me, a virtual stranger, to give your warnings and opinions when they differ with mine. Honestly, that means more than a generic "looks great" comment.

Okey-dokey... it's all grainfilled and finish sanded. I started primering it this evening - just a couple light mistings of flat white primer. By this time next week, the clear coat should be curing. Not like anyone is really paying any attention, but I'll post a progress pic when the primer is all done.

From what I've seen, the bodies that don't sell for a worthwhile price on eBay are strats and anything made from standard woods (poplar, ash, maple, etc). The more exotic the wood, the less common the body, the better it sells. In my mind, that makes a carved rosewood top PRS a decent choice. Doing a search 2 minutes ago for PRS, there were no results with a body. Example While this one has an ash body, the bloodwood top is what's making the difference. I figure there is about $25-$30 of wood there, which is selling for >$150. This seller has ash bodies constantly for $70 that don't move. I can't argue with the quilted/flamed maple top statements - they seem to do well, but not cost effective. With the price of well-figured maple, the going price has you about breaking even. FWIW: I think I have the species narrowed down, and it IS a rosewood. I think it's from Honduras. I'll have about $25 invested in this body. If it sells for $65-$80, I'll be happy; that'll basically double my money after the fees are deducted. I'm not trying to make a living off of this. I just want to try and generate a little income to slowly fund my builds. This'll also give me some practice at the techniques.

I'd go with option #1, but only because it's a bass. If it were a guitar, I'd try #2, then when I dork it up, I'd end up doing #3.

I've tried more than once listening to Allen Holdsowrth and Jeff Beck. I just don't get what's so special about them.

The second pic is a lesson learned. I drilled the pilot for the jack hole before doing the holes for the bridge posts, but my aim was off. Had I done the bridge post holes first, their placement would have been fresh in my mind and I'd NOT have aimed the input jack directly at the post hole. Fortunately, it's going to be painted, so nobody will ever see the putty. FWIW: I sanded it up to 220 last night. It's now ready for the grain fill sometime this week.

But I want y'all to give me some suggestions. Pictured below are the pieces to be used for the top. I'm wanting some suggestions of how best to place them - which you think would look best. At this point, I have no opinion at all. I'm asking because, as I said above, I intend to sell it. I'm interested in what the general public would think looks best.

body blank 2 body blank 3 I had glued up a blank base made of a 3-3/4" mahogany core with sapele wings. The board next to it is supposedly Caribbean rosewood. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure what species it is, but it sure looks nice. everything has been moistened with mineral spirits to show the grain. Once the top is glued on, the whole thing will be 1-3/4" thick. Eventually, it's destined for eBay. I gotta fund the builds somehow.... I managed to get the base rough cut tonight. You might notice a slight gap in the join of the left wing. It doesn't go all the way through, and the top will cover it up and brace it, so there are no worries. You'll notice as well that I left a piece there for a bolt-on pocket. I figure I can give the eventual buyer either a bolt-on option or cut it off for a set-neck - whichever they want.

I saw the concentric knobs, but I didn't think it was a big deal. Sorry. So what are the 3 mini switches for?.

A few months ago, I was griping on folks putting anything but 2 S/Cs in a tele. I'm starting to come around. I'm not so sure about the red pup covers, but otherwise, this really looks killer. Geo nailed it - there's something about a tele shape that makes it unbelievably adaptable. It's a little like a VW Bug. You can paint those things any color and it'd look great. Seriously - I've seen them in neon green, as a ladybug, animal prints, rally stripes, traditional colors, and dozens of other themes, and they always look good. A tele & strat are much the same way. Although I don't think I've ever seen a strat with P-90s. But if I did, it'd probably look OK.

Or nobody cares. I suppose that's another option. Anyhoo.... pic one is the back with the ferrules lying in thier seats. The hole for them is about 1/32"-1/16" bigger than the ferrules themselves. I don't know if this is standard or not, but that's as close as it's ever going to get with me, because that's the size of the forstner bit I have. As I saud yesterday morning, I know now that I shouldn't have done a 1/4" roundover on the edges of the neck pocket. It forced the ferrules in a little too far. I still don't think it'll be a huge deal, but now I know for next time. The second pic is the top moistened with mineral spirits. You can see the slight carve on the bass horn. It's just a little bit beveled, but not too much. Just enough to sharpen it up a bit. On a different note, you can see that the wood is a LOT darker on the trebel side. That's not excess wetting - that's the wood. I haven't seen this in mahogany before. Although I think it's neat, I'm glad it's getting painted. It just wouldn't look right with the variation there. Maybe I'll post another couple of pics later. Maybe not.

That gave me a great visual - like something straight out of The Three Stooges. Good chuckle to start the day with. That 'cove bit in the drill press' is a good idea. I'll have to give it a try.

Thanks.

Test fit of the hardware and the inlay. Instead of getting out the dremmel, I scribed the outline of the inlay deeply with an x-acto, then gently carved it out with a small chisel. I won't be gluing it in until after it's painted. The inlay is some extremely thin Korean inlay material. I'm afraid that 2-3 swipes of sandpaper will go through it. I can clean it up after the paint dries. So... do we want buffer posts for the other 6 pics, or do I give y'all a bunch of links?

The side of the can says the poly is fully cured in 2 weeks. What's the real scoop? I'm wanting to wetsand and buff out some poly, but I'm not 100% how long to wait.

Everything's all done. In the next couple of days, I'll do the grainfill, then I can get to the paint. Honest - I'll get some pics up by tomorrow morning. In hindsight, I should have made the body about an inch longer. That's the only real design issue I see at this point. I found out by experience that the heel shouldn't get a 1/2" roundover, but the neck joint shouldn't have any stability issues. I'd like for the screws to be a little further out, but it is what it is. Now I know for next time.

I spent about 5 hours in the shop last night. The wife & kids were off doing prep for a big yard sale. I get to do it again today, too. They'll be gone until late in the afternoon. I'm a happy guy. Last night, I made my first body. Of that 5 hours, probably only 1.5 hours was actually spent with the body itself. The rest was in setting up tools, making jigs & templates, cleanup, and just looking at it & thinking. Things should go much faster next time. I managed to get all the shaping done as well as the neck cavity, pup route, and control cavity. Unfortunately, I'm at a standstill: I need a bit large enough to drill the holes for the stop tailpiece bushings and for the lone volume knob. Not that y'all don't already know, but that mahogany works just like butter. It carved, cut, and shapes do easily... I ended up carving the horns slightly. It was more wanting to play with the angle grinder than anything else. It turns out it was the right decision. It added a lot of character to the body. I can't post any pics until Tuesday. I left the memory stick for my camera at work.

Consider yourself Railed! BTW; What do you mean by "railed" Told I don't know what I'm talking about, ran up one side & down the other, explain to everyone why I'm wrong... take your pick. In the end, it's all a matter of opinion. That was subtle, Rich. I caught it, though. Seriously, that's not me. I just know how sloppy I work sometimes, and I know I'd screw it up. It's not being afraid of making mistakes; it's knowing your limitations. If I were afraid of making mistakes, I'd not have re-married after the first one went so badly. I suggest that beginners buy their first neck not because that's what I'll be doing, but because that's the greatest point of failure. As I said earlier, there are more things that can be done wrong on the neck than on the rest of the guitar twice over. For a rookie at anything, I highly encourage baby steps. A little success can go a long way. Succeeding at making an ax with a bought neck can encourage you to push yourself to make it the next time. By then, you'll (hopefully) have developed some skills and understanding you'd not have had were you to dive into the deep end right away. Remember that learning curve you mentioned. As I said at the beginning of this post, it all comes down to personal taste. Whatever a person is comfortable doing is the right thing for him to do.

DUDE! Avocado green would be PERFECT! Killer! It's just gotta have a pickguard & binding that's either cream or chocolate brown. OR OR OR... If you do a 70's theme, burned orange! YES!!!! Burned orange & avocado green. I have WAY too many memories flooding back right now. Dark, heavy cabinets, avocado green shag carpet, and burned orange & chocolate brown plaid pants. Wide World Of Sports is on the TV on the weekend with that intro of a skier wiping out. Mmmmmmmm.... good times.

I TOTALLY agree. I was going off of what he said he was planing on using. For MY money, I'd alter it to something similar to this: 1. Karosa neck (eBay seller, decent necks) $50-$75 2. one-piece wilkinson tailpiece (eBay) $25 3. Gotoh tuning pegs (eBay) $25.00 4. 4BF of sapele $25 5. PRS plans $21 (w/shipping) 6. MDF or hardboard for templates <$10 at local yard 7. 2 GFS humbuckers $80-$90 8. misc parts & hardware $30 (again, eBay) 9. finishing supplies $20 (locally bought) Note that all prices include shipping. That has my total at $286-$$321, so figure $300 or so. You can bring it down probably $50 by getting some used pups on eBay that someone pulled out of their Ibanez or whatever when they upgraded. They might not be top line, but they'll be OK to start with. FWIW: When I replaced the EMGs in my '88 Steinberger, someone got a steal when they bought an 81 & 2 SAs, with all electronics, for just over $50. Honestly, and I know I'll get railed for this, I would encourage a beginner to buy a neck for the first build. There are already a LOT of things that can and will go wrong the first time out. It may be a LOT more expensive than building it yourself, but it also eliminates about 300 things that can go wrong. You can get away with a slip here and there on the body. One slip in the wrong place on the neck and you're screwed.

There are a number of different ways to apply a finish, but they all serve the same mechanical function: protecting the wood. FWIW, I finished the maple neck of my first build with brush-on lacquer, and it looks great. I'm looking forward to seeing how it does on a flat surface, wet-sanded up to 3000 grit, then buffed out with a $20 6" Ryobi buffer from Home Depot. This is to state that it can be done with inexpensive equipment. I'm not suggesting that expensive factory setups don't give a LOT better result, because they do. I'm only saying that for the dude in his garage, a nice finish is attainable w/o $1000 in equipment. Well, I know we're all in agreement that THAT'S a very attainable goal.

I thought about making a sarcastic suggestion of a bright lime green! That proves it: Great minds think alike. And so do we.

I actually did mention the top. I'm NOT trying to argue with you, but I do feel that further explanation is necessary. For the $20 in finishing suplies, I was only figuring pure cost of materials. The first full paragraph assumes all necessary equipment. This is most likely a false assumption, but it was made for the sake of discussion. Please bear in mind the sources I linked were only for example. I would presume the body wood would be picked out in person. That link was only for price reference. Lastly, the list and links were made without ANY shopping around at all. Many reductions in cost can be found by putting in the necessary research time. I agree that cutting corners is NOT the way to get a quality build, but it's foolish to pay more for something than necessary. The bottom line is, and I hope we can all agree with this, that a servicable guitar can be built for far less than the price of a new one. Again, this is assuming the tools are in place. Please note my last paragraph where I agreed that it'd be dang hard to match a PRS in quality. You're right that there are extremely important factors that would alter the final quality comparison. Without years of experience, unreasonably expensive equipment, and more time than we have, there's virtually no way we'd be able to match a top-of-the-line PRS. Very servicable and very playable, however, are a completely different story. I agree that it'd probably take a number of builds to match a mid-grade production ax. Consider, though, that most of us are hobbyist luthiers with limited resources. Considering that we're basically a bunch of overgrown kids playing with our tools in the basement/garage/whatever, making an ax that compares with a $750-$1000 piece isn't too shabby.

Before anyone else says anything about the cost of building the ax, let's really look at it. The opening post stated he'd be working side by side with his father. That suggests the major power tools are already in place, so there's no expense there. Looking at the rest of what's needed (in no order) with what's already been stated: 1. Warmoth neck - mohogany & rosewood $213 2. Tone Pros TOM bridge & tailpiece $112.50 3. Gotoh tuning pegs $25.50 4. 4BF of African mohogany $36.00 5. PRS plans $21 (w/shipping) 6. MDF or hardboard for templates <$10 at local yard 7. 2 humbuckers $150 8. misc parts & hardware (shielding, pots, screws, etc) $50 9. finishing supplies $20 This has us with a running total of $638 without shipping (except for #5). There are plenty of places to cut costs, namely the bridge. Tone Pros are very expensive. A TOM can be had for <$50 without looking too hard. Making your neck would even out considering the specialty tools you'd need to get. The big savings (material cost) is making your own body. Note htat no price has been assigned to the drop top. That's because there are WAY too many variables to even come close. It'd be anywhere from $30 to over $200. So, can it be done for a fraction of the cost? Absolutely. It won't be as good as a 'real' PRS, but that's only because it'll be your first go at it. There's no reason it wouldn't be very servicable and very playable, though. The satisfaction of making it yourself is well worth it, and in my opinion, a fair trade-off.

I was able to spend a small bit of time in the shop last night. After looking at what was left of the jatoba body and the mahogany on hand, figuring out what would be needed to use them both.... It's fixable. I know it is. My fear is that I don't yet have the skills to execute it properly. I'm probably trying to make it happen. At this point, that's not the best plan for me. With that realization, I decided to just make a new blank from mahogany. It's an all-round better choice for me right now. What I need right now is to make a body and gain some skills and confidence. Knock out one or two easy ones, THEN try something harder. Baby steps.