henrim Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 14 minutes ago, mistermikev said: On the one hand you have made me doubt myself, on the other: I'm confident in my body of work. I’m well aware that I can be wrong. So be confident, do what you feel is right and laugh at me in the end! Or with me, for whatever reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted October 7 Author Report Share Posted October 7 1 hour ago, henrim said: I’m well aware that I can be wrong. So be confident, do what you feel is right and laugh at me in the end! Or with me, for whatever reason All good. I know it is said in the spirit of honesty... and I never would have given a second thought if I hadn't originally questioned it myself. So thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 Staring at the parallelograms... it plays tricks on my eyes. right now I honestly can't say if I like this or not. I'll post here... and look again tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 At a quick glance the blocks seem to slant similarly to each other unlike on the photo. Does this drawing match with the actual fretboard? If so, we may be discussing an optical issue related to your camera settings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 3 hours ago, mistermikev said: Staring at the parallelograms... it plays tricks on my eyes. right now I honestly can't say if I like this or not. I'll post here... and look again tomorrow. As far as I see on this drawing the parallelograms look consistent. But the slanted lines combined with horizontal and vertical lines can play games with your mind. In many cases some adjustments in spacing and angles is needed. I'm not sure how it should go in this case but I'd be tempted to try tightening the space between the pairs as they get smaller. Nothing radical but tiny decrements. I'm not a master in typography but I find it fascinating and the typographic rules and conventions can be used with other shapes and forms too. The spacing (kerning) between letters is an art form of its own. It's not all mathematical. Here's a crude example with basic shapes. Because of the different shapes, If you set an equal space between the elements they look out of place. It all starts to look different if you space them with an equal space but take the take the dominant angle of the shape in to account. Depending on the shape you may need to adjust the margin by eye (green line in the pic). And on top of that, to even out the rhythm and make the different shapes look like they are the same height you may need to overshoot round and pointy shapes (red line in the pic). This may not apply directly to this fretboard, but to me typography has been an eye opener on how to compensate margins and sizes to fool the eye. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 3 hours ago, Bizman62 said: At a quick glance the blocks seem to slant similarly to each other unlike on the photo. Does this drawing match with the actual fretboard? If so, we may be discussing an optical issue related to your camera settings! so... it tells me a lot that you used the term "similarly" here lol. yes on this drawing the grams are geometrically perfect. they follow the lines of the fretboard, and frets... and have the exact same 23 degree angle throughout. def camera settings are playing a role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 2 hours ago, henrim said: As far as I see on this drawing the parallelograms look consistent. But the slanted lines combined with horizontal and vertical lines can play games with your mind. In many cases some adjustments in spacing and angles is needed. I'm not sure how it should go in this case but I'd be tempted to try tightening the space between the pairs as they get smaller. Nothing radical but tiny decrements. I'm not a master in typography but I find it fascinating and the typographic rules and conventions can be used with other shapes and forms too. The spacing (kerning) between letters is an art form of its own. It's not all mathematical. Here's a crude example with basic shapes. Because of the different shapes, If you set an equal space between the elements they look out of place. It all starts to look different if you space them with an equal space but take the take the dominant angle of the shape in to account. Depending on the shape you may need to adjust the margin by eye (green line in the pic). And on top of that, to even out the rhythm and make the different shapes look like they are the same height you may need to overshoot round and pointy shapes (red line in the pic). This may not apply directly to this fretboard, but to me typography has been an eye opener on how to compensate margins and sizes to fool the eye. in this case... the top row looks much better to me. shapes illustrate it much less than fonts/letters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 19 minutes ago, mistermikev said: in this case... the top row looks much better to me. shapes illustrate it much less than fonts/letters. All right, then. No need to dive any deeper on this. Rock on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 well there's still some dead horse to beat... for instance... seeing these right next to ea other... I would wager 9 out of eleventy couldn't even see any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 30 minutes ago, mistermikev said: well there's still some dead horse to beat... for instance... seeing these right next to ea other... I would wager 9 out of eleventy couldn't even see any difference. The difference is not so easy to spot on a line drawing. Not sure if I would notice it either on a glance. But looking them closely I can see that, unlike the real fretboard the angle shift on the design on the left looks consistent. So, maybe the randomness I see on the photograph is not there, or your CNC went wonky. As pointed out, it may be just a lens distortion in the photograph. You have the board there and as you know how it really is, you may not see what I see in the photograph. Because what I see may not be there in the real world. That said, what I have seen your work I have a huge respect on your design choices. They are from totally different end of the spectrum than mine, something I cannot do but I can respect. So I believe you are the best judge here. Believe in yourself and not someone from a Scandinavian design heritage who believes that a cube is the solution for everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted October 8 Author Report Share Posted October 8 3 minutes ago, henrim said: The difference is not so easy to spot on a line drawing. Not sure if I would notice it either on a glance. But looking them closely I can see that, unlike the real fretboard the angle shift on the design on the left looks consistent. So, maybe the randomness I see on the photograph is not there, or your CNC went wonky. As pointed out, it may be just a lens distortion in the photograph. You have the board there and as you know how it really is, you may not see what I see in the photograph. Because what I see may not be there in the real world. That said, what I have seen your work I have a huge respect on your design choices. They are from totally different end of the spectrum than mine, something I cannot do but I can respect. So I believe you are the best judge here. Believe in yourself and not someone from a Scandinavian design heritage who believes that a cube is the solution for everything. well we can rule out the cnc going wonky cause it would have had to have gone the exact amount of wonky on both the inlay and the inlay pocket (also checked everything against the printed output as I went). It certainly is less emphasized in the drawing... and I suspect that not getting a straight on pic w my camera is probably emphasizing it more in the photo. Also... being set against the uncut straight lines of the fretboard doesn't help it at all. that said... clearly you picked up on it straight away... and there IS def a variance happening in the angle. that's not a coincidence. Now that you've said it... I can't unsee... specifically the very last inlay. since it is so close to the one above now it is like a flashing neon sign to me lol. that said I don't see it the sm in the drawing. dif between theory and reality I spose. i appreciate your kind comments. feel it important to say that this is all productive. it's not always pleasant... doubting yourself... but it is always productive. Often find myself in this position, with or without input... of trying to predict if something bothers me long term. I either make the right decision a lot... or time just has a way of de-emphasizing things like this as I look back at similar conundrums in guitars I built and wonder why it even was a question in the first place lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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