KnightroExpress Posted August 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 So here's stage two, in which we've gotten some painting done and taken delivery of a few machines. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Yeah, I'm starting to see how this will work.... You've got to stop those noisy fans hanging around near the stage door though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted August 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I'm going to resist making another 'biggest fan' joke. I'm about to head over there now... setting up the edge sander and dust collection are my goals for the day. Maybe the drill press as well, if I can lift the damned thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 So, on to Stage 3: more paint has been...uh, painted, and many things have been unboxed. Also, I scored a pretty nice stash of wood from a fellow local builder. He was happy to make some room in his garage and I was happy to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 Stage 4: almost there! The shop area paintwork is done, workbench and router table assembled, edge sander is roughly in place. Tomorrow's update: done and ready to rock! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitaraxz Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 Oh that shop looks incredible! It is the dream of every luthier....big space....big machines......yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2016 So here it is, the final video. Everything is set up and good to go! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted September 3, 2016 Report Share Posted September 3, 2016 PIW PIW! Lasers! Looks like a nice, clean and spacious setup. Now get building something. Cheap future upgrade ideas - you might want to consider replacing those long straight duct runs with rigid PVC pipe as big as your dust collector inlet can handle (probably 5" or 6" if you remove that Y-splitter inlet). You'll get far better suction at the end of the longer run to the drum sander, and you'll be able to take better advantage of the dual 4" ports on the bandsaw. Stormwater PVC pipe can be had cheaply from all sorts of places - agricultural supplies, plumbers, hardware store, even junk yard sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 I appreciate the advice! I'm already thinking about running a 6" PVC main line with 4" branches for the equipment, though I get plenty of power at the far end. I may have lightly overspecced the collector... it's a fairly burly 2HP unit for my little system. So, back to building! I'm working on a 7 string Voyager with a 26.5" scale. The neck has been cut out and routed to shape, truss rod and carbon fiber channels were routed, tuner holes have been drilled, and I made a snazzy little rosewood heel laminate for a dash of extra flavor. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 Whoa, I can smell that neck from here man! Hope you can still breathe through your nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 I keep a respirator on when doing dusty things, no worries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Just a little update today. Trimmed the new heel laminate, checked the neck's fit and alignment, and glued in the carbon reinforcements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Flip every other clamp upside down and it will be easier to tighten them without them getting in the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Oh, totally. I always figured that F-clamps with hex ends on the handles would be great for tightening with an impact driver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 True enough, thanks guys! I'm designing a neck jig that'll fit in a vacuum bag (still incoming) so I don't have to futz with stuff like this for too much longer. I want things to be simple and rock solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Remember that air pressure at sea level is 14,7PSI so you can't expect massive clamping pressures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Before I re-open that can of worms again, I should probably make note that I am contacting Franklin International to discuss this very thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 Classy shop! And once you got back to work, you really got back to work! Damn that's a lot of action! SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 @Prostheta You know, I always find myself questioning the clamping pressures you quote. It's not that I don't believe you or trust your experience, the numbers they want just seem ridiculously high. I've never gotten a bad joint when I go through proper prep and just clamp the sh*t out of my work (that's a technical term), but I doubt that I'm getting to the huge PSI levels you've talked about. I'm definitely curious to hear the results of your conversation. @ScottR Thanks Scott! I'm done messing around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 You should question them Andrew, definitely. They are derived from theoretical best practice in the woodworking industry and adhesive manufacturer's technical specifications. Whilst studying my first degree I spent a lot of time visiting factories and seeing how they translate that into practice. It's more like engineering than it is art, however I guess that depends on your art tastes. haha Now, we know that this magical golden zone of pressure the manufacturers quote is mostly theoretical since it is talking "product-backwards" rather than "end-use-forwards". I can't say that it is even possible for home gamers or pros to apply the pressures that the spec sheets say in some circumstances, whilst in others its possible to totally overshoot the mark! I would even suspect that home gamers have more time and opportunity on their hands to spend their resources working up to perfect clamping pressures than some guitar manufacturers in many instances. PRS are pretty canny with their air hoses. It has to be borne in mind that not hitting that golden zone doesn't necessarily equate to an automatic bad joint or even the likelihood of one. Adhesive manufacturers don't broach this though publicly though, since that becomes a legal shitfest when things DO go wrong, even if that is one in a few thousand you know? Standard numbers for hardwoods is about 200-400PSI dependent on species and growth ring orientation. In my opinion (this is all it is since this is the can of worms bit right here) we can get away with maybe a quarter to half of that as long as our basic joinery and preparation are on the ball. We might not achieve perfect ultimate bond strength or get the most invisible of glue lines, however the end product will work perfectly within its expectations. The top won't peel off the body just because we didn't do what the engineer's specs say we're supposed to! We'll still achieve the greater majority of that bond strength in terms of percentage, and if we're diligent about thickness of application then the glueline will be more or less perfect. It just gets out of the realm of guarantees that the manufacturer can provide and down to what our personal experience tells us. This is entirely why I don't think they are rules as such, however aiming at the bullseye gets you on the board. Getting it isn't that important, but at least knowing which way to face helps....! Yeah, the numbers are scary and borderline insane....but real. Balancing a pickup truck on a top glueup isn't enough pressure, and I think that's where the numbers seem to drop out of common reality for most. You just can't easily visualise things like that because it's out of common human perspective. We can throw a potato, squash a tomato or kick down a door. You can't push over an Oak tree or restrain a dragster with your bare hands. It just doesn't seem right because we lack the familiarity. I'm going to head over to see Lauri at Hydraulic Press Channel and we'll do a video on clamping pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 It's also worth bearing in mind that this is based purely off PVAc/aliphatics such as Titebond. Epoxy is the complete opposite since high pressure is the enemy of bond strength for that. I rarely have time to run real numbers in the field, however it's easy to look at a workpiece and see the magnitude of surface area stacking up. That's when the numbers get big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 It would be interesting to put a gauge on various common clamps and see how much PSI they can generate. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 That would be interesting! I think that the allure of vacuum clamping for me is the ultra-consistent and even pressure application. I want properly good results every time with minimal time spent screwing around. If going vac means switching to epoxy rather than aliphatics for a lot of things, then so be it! I'm gonna go read about glue now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 Ah, we're such dorks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 Haha yeah... it's in my title Seriously though, I'm really glad to be part of a community that can productively discuss the merits of various adhesives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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