Project S9 Continued...

[ScottR]

The maple burl rework came out great. It is not everyday you see a bridge route get some polish. Did the buffer make a big mess?

Padouk for the Red Witch, right?

SR

[RestorationAD]

The maple burl rework came out great. It is not everyday you see a bridge route get some polish. Did the buffer make a big mess?

Almost. But I have plenty of experience with big buffers. I ended up making cardboard guards that went from the floor up and over the wheels. Kept the dust in the one area. The rouge from Caswell is pretty dry. Nice stuff and it basically left some powder on the guitar that blew off with the air gun. The floor and me took the worst of it.

Every time I use the buffer it feels like I have spiderwebs on my face. Even with the shield I was wearing. Strange.

Padouk for the Red Witch, right?

SR

Yes. I think I am going to chamber this one like I did the wenge multiscale. Not sure yet. I haven't built a 6 string in about a year now and can't remember what shape the CAD files are in for the 6 strings.

[demonx]

Looks like you've got a fair but on the go

I hear what you are saying about colors getting lost in multilaminates

A couple years ago I did a neck with ebony and rosewood and you can't really see the difference at a glance. Waste of good timber

Also can relate to not building many sixes. I'm doing one at the moment and it just feels weird and tiny!

[bob123]

Cool, good info thanks

Ah, whats the epoxy for? Stuck to the wax ok?

The EMG covers do not have base plates. They are like a bucket for the pickup. After dropping the pickup bits in the bucket you fill it with epoxy to hold it all together (hopefully).

EMG just uses epoxy. If they break that is it. No digging them out.

I use the wax initially as a way to protect them so I can maybe pop them out later. Also protects the wires from breaking as the epoxy cures.

[Robbinst]

Dear lord that burl is fantastic! My jaw dropped a bit when I saw it haha.

[Prostheta]

I actually had a lot of success but not trying to fight the colour contrast with Zebrano, but to introduce more linearity against the wilder grain. The Bubinga will probably pop out once it gets hits with oil or clear.

[pauliemc]

Yea time is a killer. I like to carve my gitirs kinda excessivly, so time kiks my ass something awfull. You would not believe the hours that vanish into my Lotus models, especially when its made of Ash or Wenge. I have a fully chambered Cobra about to start (my front & back carved les paul-a-majigger) Id say there will be 100-150 hours in it easily. thats like €3000.00 in labour right there, so the materials & hardware are going to have to free, or there is no way it will be affordable to the customer.

I rekon you boys with the CNC machines are on to something. I should realy look into one more seriously. even just for roughing out, it would more than half my hours in a build.

Speaking of which, you seem to be on the ball with roborad lately, worked the bugs out yet ?

[Prostheta]

Really? Google "exnihilo les paul" and check out Scott's method of roughing in a carve using templates. That approach will quarter your time as long as you can develop a contour map of your carve in minor height graduations.

[pauliemc]

Yip. Realy. This is chambered. For all intents & purposes its an archtop. Top and back plates are carved inside aswell as out. Doing that with quilted maple is a laborious process. If it was just a standard carve solid jobbie it would take less than half the time. Anyway. Less hijacking threads. Any more progress rad ?

[cdf294]

Subscribed.

Great thread RAD.

[demonx]

Yea time is a killer. ...Id say there will be 100-150 hours in it easily.

Huh?

My earliest builds were around those kind of figures, but I then got them down around 50 and less fir a full custom. I've estimated my current build may be approx 20 hrs by the time its finished as I haven't had to do a lot of extra things on it, like paint or inlay. Its just a oil finish.

I'm currently looking for ways I can get that down to 10-15 hours! There's always room to squeeze a but more if you keep looking. Just keep squeezing!

You may want to do a time journal and see where you need to improve your methods. Ill be doing yet another one on my next builds as I have new machinery and a few different methods and I want to see the time difference.

[RestorationAD]

Yeah.

I don't know how many hours go into a guitar. I will tell you this though it is more than 50. When you keep track of CAD time, pickup building time, minor snafus, refinishing things that should have been finished the first time, cutting the foam in the case and gluing it together, Multiscales and other crap it all just keeps adding up. I recently added custom case badges with the name of the guitar to the build time.

The S6 Bass was a brand new venture... so it took 3 times longer than a regular guitar.

I know that the original S9 was 40 hours then it dropped to 25 hours when I got the CNC depending on the finish. But I am again in the process of redefining what the S9 in it will probably cost me hours on the first build or two.

I might try the time journal on the next build.

Yea time is a killer. ...Id say there will be 100-150 hours in it easily.

Huh?

My earliest builds were around those kind of figures, but I then got them down around 50 and less fir a full custom. I've estimated my current build may be approx 20 hrs by the time its finished as I haven't had to do a lot of extra things on it, like paint or inlay. Its just a oil finish.

I'm currently looking for ways I can get that down to 10-15 hours! There's always room to squeeze a but more if you keep looking. Just keep squeezing!

You may want to do a time journal and see where you need to improve your methods. Ill be doing yet another one on my next builds as I have new machinery and a few different methods and I want to see the time difference.

[demonx]

I've started a journal myself on this batch of 5 I'm doing.

[pauliemc]

Time journals are all well & good, but some styles just take time. My hours are fairly good on flat guitars, my Alphas, super strats & teles & so on. But carving a top inside & out just takes time.

These things have a 25mm deep top plate that gets carved like a Les paul, but with a 3mm deep recurve. then hollowed out so the whole thing is only 3-4mm thick - except for a neck & tail block that is. then it gets a 16mm deep back plate for good measure. Both in quilted maple.

Add to that a 5 piece laminate set-neck with a scarfed head stock, vine inlay, binding front & back, fret board & head stock, poly finish & satin on the neck. 50 hours went by about 50 hours ago

RAD, So you rekon a CNC might almost half your time on flat type guitars ? I was looking at one last year but turned against the idea when it could not rear profile a neck much faster then I could with rasps, seemed like a waste of money. Have you tried yours on anything with a full carved top ?

Love that burl btw

[RestorationAD]

RAD, So you rekon a CNC might almost half your time on flat type guitars ? I was looking at one last year but turned against the idea when it could not rear profile a neck much faster then I could with rasps, seemed like a waste of money. Have you tried yours on anything with a full carved top ?

Love that burl btw

Eventually it will half your time. The first year it doubled my time. Now that I can really run CAD and CAM it halves my routing time.

It is not faster than I am. It takes it 3 or 4 hours to do a body and I have to flip it once. It usually takes 3 or 4 hours to do a neck and I leave them square so I still have to carve them.

It allows me to do other stuff while it is working. So on a single guitar I am faster. On a batch of 3 it cuts the time in half.

[pauliemc]

3-4 hours for a neck ?. & you still need to rear profile it. Thats what turned me off it originally. I wouldent have 4 hours in a standard neck start to finish. But then im thinkin i may be able to shave time off of bodies & roughing out. Having pauliebot basicly mirror my output on bodies. Necks would still be fully hand dun. Does that seem pheasable from your experiance ? Bearing in mind i have 20 years of cad to run with

[RestorationAD]

Well to be frank my machine is not big enough. If and when I upgrade I suspect they will be run faster. Right now If I try and run faster or cut deeper I get flex in the Z axis followed by tear out.

THe machine I want is expensive and large. Not sure I am going to do it. I might just look for a stronger small machine.

[pauliemc]

Yea. I was thinking about 7000 would get me kinda sorted. But i rekon i could nearly double that for something i could rely on for a few years. Thats not including software. Pc. Cutters & getting it setup in place. Lota money for something i only want as opposed to realy need

[Prostheta]

Well, if you can find more ways of using the CNC to enhance your productivity in other areas that $7000 or $14k immediately become far less radical prices to drop. Saving a hundred hours (or magicking them up out of thin air) could translate to $5000 in time if you cost yourself and your hours appropriately.

[pauliemc]

Well, if you can find more ways of using the CNC to enhance your productivity in other areas that $7000 or $14k immediately become far less radical prices to drop. Saving a hundred hours (or magicking them up out of thin air) could translate to $5000 in time if you cost yourself and your hours appropriately.

& that right there sums up exactly why im thinking about going all darth luthier again. It may not realy save me time on necks but if it can match me body for body then thats basicly a free guitar body timewise (well almost). Id like it to pay for itself in 3 years if possible. That ultimatly means it has to make me 6500-7000 a year. Although in year one that wont happen - eh rad serious learning curve with new machines like these.

[RestorationAD]

I am a computer programer by trade and have been using computers since I was 7 (back when they only had black and green screens). I started doing computer art and vector drawing in the late 90s. I spent 10 years as an electrician specializing in control wiring before that. Yet the learning curve was still steep. It really took me a year to get to the point where I could draw it faster in CAD than I could on paper.

Toolpathing is a long learned art. It takes a few days to make your first cuts and you spend a career perfecting it.

[Prostheta]

Look forward to seeing it if you are willing to share your trade secrets ;-)

I don't know if a CNC really pays for itself if it is carving things like necks. Simple profiling, slotting non-standard fingerboards and inlays, making templates and parts for jigs seem to be the most productive way to multiply output. I spend far too much time making templates from CAD by hand when it would make more sense to throw them straight into a quick cut on the CNC. Literally a tenth of the time. I just have to figure out how to get around the grumpy racist old man who dislikes me into doing work for me. Grmph.

[RestorationAD]

Bye bye Colossus

[RestorationAD]

Did manage some work over the short weekend (I was busy skydiving last Sunday)

Red. Padauk, Maple, Ebony.

Neck blank for new headless... limba and ebony.

Top for the headless is figured Black Limba

[RestorationAD]

Now that the RAS is fixed up with a new deck and no play it is time to make fixtures for scarfing. This is the first pass. I am going to make it better on the next pass. Using 10-32 socket heads into 10-32 inserts to hold it in place. No more squirrely clamps.