westhemann Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I am not sure you get the idea...beveling will make no difference at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I am not sure you get the idea...beveling will make no difference at all. No... I understand your point completely. I simply feel differently about it than you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadovfor Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I love it ... Momo posts a guitar that isn't particularly innovative ... and it encourages you guys to start innovating!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 That's my thought as well. Doing this with a scroll saw, I'd set the table at an angle so that the edges of the cut would be at a bevel. This would make the joint a LOT more forgiving with matching it up and filling/hiding any small gaps. Granted, there shouldn't be any gaps to hide/fill, but we're humans, not CNC/laser machines. I agree a scroll saw ill give minimum gaps but a router if properly setup will give no gap what so ever. Now how many members have a router and a scroll saw. By scroll saw I assume you dont mean a hand held jig saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have both, and I would prefer to use a router with good geometry and an inlaying set than a scroll saw due to the kerf of the blade and wood fibres getting torn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have both, and I would prefer to use a router with good geometry and an inlaying set than a scroll saw due to the kerf of the blade and wood fibres getting torn up. I agree. I have a scroll saw and have never used it to build a guitar or cut any parts for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) By scroll saw I assume you don't mean a hand held jig saw. Correct. FWIW: scroll saw techniques Go about halfway down the page to the walnut box with the maple dolphin inlaid into the lid. The first video describes the basic technique of doing inlay with the scroll saw. The important bits start at about the 5-minute mark. Again, I agree that there shouldn't be any gap. A 2-3 degree angle (on 1/4" stock) is not a big issue to ensure that there are no gaps. What you may mot be taking into account in thinking that there won't be any gaps is the kerf of the blade. 1/32" isn't that thick, but it's enough to leave a noticeable gap around a curve. Angling the cut removes the space made by the kerf, ensuring a perfect fit. I have both, and I would prefer to use a router with good geometry and an inlaying set than a scroll saw due to the kerf of the blade and wood fibres getting torn up. You simply use packing tape to hold the fibers in place and eliminate tear out. See the above paragraph for the kerf issue. I have a scroll saw and have never used it to build a guitar or cut any parts for one. It's PERFECT for making small inlays. I've done f-holes with it, which is dang easy, as well as covers & plates. I use it all the time to make the control cavity on a body that's getting a top. I've even used it to chamber bodies that were to be painted. A back was glued on after the body was chambered. Edited June 16, 2009 by avengers63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I like to kick my scroll saw. It's also useful for keeping the floor from floating off, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I do have a scroll saw..it was given to me but I have yet to use it...many plans for it though... No,Avenger,I understand kerf very well...being a fitter in the miscellaneous metals trade for many years..kind of a sideline of my job as a dumbass Ironworker/welder.. I do understand that if your "haphazard"(looking,but planned) cut has too sharp of a "vertical" in it that it will have a small kerf induced gap...but I don't see the bevel changing that...maybe there is a bit of a flaw in my "mind's eye",but I am usually very good at picturing that sort of thing.. In Conklin tops,they take more than one turn in the piece...meaning that the bevel will help you not at all,because taking off of one "vertical" leaves a larger gap in the other...(if you don't get "vertical",picture the top as north,south,east,west...lines going north to south are vertical) Anyway...I am almost sure that most of these tops replace the kerf with a small flexible strip of wood...ebony or whatever...you could even use cellulose binding I would think...or colored epoxy,turqoiuse,recon stone... I mean,if the object is a piece of art style guitar,then why would you simply join two pieces of wood in a crooked fashion? Anyway..maybe you see more possibilities now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 If you watch the video, you'll see that the piece turns and follows the curve of the inlay. This would keep the edges at a relatively constant angle to each other. To make a comparison, look at the cutoff from your initial rough cut of the outline of the body on the bandsaw. You can put the pieces back against the body, but because of the curves, you won't get a perfect fit. You'll still be able to see daylight through the joint. Between the beveling and the thinness of the scroll saw blade, the gap is completely eliminated. Now, it IS an interesting idea to intentionally make the gap wider and fill it with a strip of banding, colored epoxy, recon stone, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Between the beveling and the thinness of the scroll saw blade, the gap is completely eliminated. I just don't agree that the beveling does anything... The beveling is for inlays..totally different...in this case it does nothing at all as far as I can tell...unless you plan on rethicknessing the top after joining...which would be strange...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I bet the very last thing the 'Innovative Collective' were expecting on this thread is a discussion on scroll saw techniques! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 It's the Project Guitar mandate: Let no thread more than one page go un-hijacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 Wake me up when the wheel gets reinvented. In the meantime, I'm going to sleep to dream of old girls past and future glory. Hah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 Is it just me or is his right-hand technique kinda strange? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 Yup, he's cheating. Instead if using one single pick he is using a bunch of fingers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 From what I remember he's not using a BUNCH of fingers. He's using one hahahaha. Maybe I wasn't paying full attention. I started with classical, so I know fingerstyle. That ain't it. He's also kinda double-thumbing bass style every now and then hahaha. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 No,he's using his thumb and parts of his hand to keep unwanted strings from feeding back and vibrating.you have to do that with the gain turned up.I use my left hand to do the same thing,and it makes your hand look a little "lazy" or whatever,but without it you would have a serious noise issue. It is just a byproduct of fingerpicking with gain.My guess is he can't do it with his left hand because he is likely chording in some awkward positions.But I can't say that I like his tone or his style very well.It would get real old real quick. Notice when he isn't picking with his thumb he is resting it on a string and resting his palm on the ones above it.He uses the two forefingers to pick below it,and his two remaining fingers to brace against the bridge.He is just not good enough to have any real "flair" or whatever to make it look and sound more natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Dave Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 Chicken picken. Al a Albert Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted September 19, 2010 Report Share Posted September 19, 2010 He is just not good enough to have any real "flair" or whatever to make it look and sound more natural. He's way better than me. I need a pick and at least a couple of fingers to do that type of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richstick Posted September 20, 2010 Report Share Posted September 20, 2010 Ok, I don't mean to be negative - and I'm a TOTAL newb here, but for such an 'innovative' guitar, couldn't they have found someone halfway decent to play it? I mean, seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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