GuitarInnovationCollective Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 no it doesnt matter - i think seeing the original design idea is very interesting, but i personally wouldnt have had that as the main thing on your website/magazine. Maybe its not as important to everybody but the scale issue jumped out at me and made it look odd - wheras the actual real life design looks much better!! and i have used a few TV jones pickups in my time so am well aware of tom's work, i also have a moody strap fwiw. I am certainly not knocking the people you have doing this work or the work itself. Hey Wez its all good...when i update the page i will make sure i put up the cad design pics to show the evaluation ..ill let you know when its done so you can give me your vibe. I do appreciate the out side points of view. Have a great day Thanks Momo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarInnovationCollective Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 With all due respect, as I see a potentially very interesting build. You are taking different elements from different builders to come up with a different guitar from the norm...It sounds like a "custom" build to me, as many have done here. Is it innovative to have a Flying V with four pickups, a half maple, half eboy fretboard, true temperament frets, etc., etc.? Yes, I haven´t seen those elements together before. But it still is within the real of "custom" building, as so many have done here before. I´d be much more interested in your reasons for tying all these elements together, what you wish to achieve as a "collective", what are the goals, etc. I don´t think that people here are jumping at your throat, it´s just that the way the project was presented is not exactly what we are used to here... By all means, post ideas, questions and whatever you wish to share, but it came out across more as an advertisement than a project. I for one, am very interested in your build as a whole. Hey Joe thanks for your precise words. Well for starters i love gigliotti guitars,i have over 50 guitars in my collection but these have always fascinated me in the stability. Ive always wanted a great flying v that could crossover to all styles of playing that had an original look without looking like a frankenstein guitar and when i went to namm last year the opportunity presented itself to connect with some of the people i really respect in the guitar industry. This is not an add about guitars for me but the promotion of possibilities that live within the people that surround you.We all have something we are good at and other things we wish we were doing but are not.Gigliotti started his first claim to fame sort of speak when joe bonamassa started playing them..thats the telecaster thing .One day i said to pat lets make me a v and tv jones is not usually associated with rock and i know that tom loves hard rock and punk but is associated with that gretsch thing but he has awesome rock pickups what a great chance to break some conceptions and show some possibilities. The true temperament fret company is in europe we have only talked on the net and quickly became friends. This is an awesome small company that works and has worked their ass off to perfect this system they built why not let more people they exist.I could understand how some people could think this is some kind of add thing but the only thing being sold here is the experience of going through this building trip with us and have some fun for nothing. To me its kind of like inviting everybody over to be part of this thing in an interactive way.One of my main jobs in life is to motivate people and it is in my normal way of thinking to achieve higher goals everyday and surpass myself as many times a year as possible.I also help kids all over the world on the net and one of the ways i do it is by showing people that getting things done is as easy as just doing it. I know im new here and i know the mentalities of most luthiers..When your locked up trying to make a living selling instruments ,breathing your cocobolo dust and spray fumes, staying locked up in their own world of survival could make for some pretty bitter critical people. I quite the music business so many times and have been in it form every angle. The truth be said..I just want to have some fun with some great people,get some smiles,get some laffs,and learn from each other and pass it on.The power of giving for nothing goes a whole lot further then most people think. Well you wanted to know thats it..if your interested in some of my motivation blogs you could check them out on my youtube page. Take care Momo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I know im new here and i know the mentalities of most luthiers..When your locked up trying to make a living selling instruments ,breathing your cocobolo dust and spray fumes, staying locked up in their own world of survival could make for some pretty bitter critical people. i resent that!!! ... i was bitter and twisted before i ever made a guitar (mind you, i make my small amount of guitar building money after finishing my day at a full time job doing something completely different, i still dont like using the L-word) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Next this whole conception about holding a v sitting down is getting old for me. Amen...I have played Vees for years..always wanted one,finally found one i liked(KXK) ,and have been playing it ever since... I stand to play 99.9% of the time(at least),so for me I always wonder why more people aren't standing up to play...but let's keep it real here,they are not comfortable at all to play sitting down....even the way you describe(which is how I sit to play when I do sit).I always keep other guitars around so if i want to sit I have many that will suffice... No single guitar will ever satisfy everyone...and the more "unique" they are,the less people they will satisfy... See,I love a good V...and I love the finish concept...but I don't like anything but an H/H pickup configuration and I can't stand a bolt on...so this guitar is not for me...but I still like it.. Allow us to get used to the idea of you around here,and I am sure everything will be okay...if I had to guess I would say the problem is that the super high tech website and your admitted "motivational" pitch clashes a bit with the small time vibe of most of us here...makes it seem like you are here to "make a sale" or promote your gig..whatever your "gig" is exactly...but I am sure that is not the case...maybe... Read a few of the build topics...you'll see that most guys just post progress,answer questions,and ignore the few lame criticisms like "how could you paint that beautiful wood!" and "Why did you dye that?!,the natural wood color is so awesomely brown...how could you!!!???" Gawd I hate natural finishes on plain wood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge for november Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Hey guys. For starters I'm not a cocobolo sniffing old dude.. but a student studying Industrial product design. Most of my education is based on thinking up innovative stuff. That's why I was curious to some of the solutions, as I was not sure about them. Please don't take any of the "tone" in my posts as personal attacks! . The reason I questioned the fact that the guitar is bolt on, is because of some issues that come with a bolt on. I built a bolt on guitar, and basically when I get in the upper region of the neck, the sharp edges of the heel poke me in my palm. Another is that most people reckon a bolt on has less sustain then the other solutions. This and more surprised me a bit for an innovative product, still I admit I love my bolt on, and it sustains just fine. Choices are there to be made! About the V thing, a bit of the same.. From the perspective of my education, innovative designs usually incorporate ergonomics. The V is of course an icon in history, and I do like the shape. I for one cannot play it sitting down. as I'm in a wheelchair, so that's one of the reason the thought came to mind! So if I read your post correctly, you mentioned that the bending of strings do not cause a sudden change in pitch? If so this makes that concept interesting. Could you explain why the string doesn't suddenly change pitch when it hits a bend in the fret? I'm really looking forward to seeing this guitar in it's finished form. I'm sure it'll look great! I hope it'll come out to your wishes! PS I hope this post doesn't again come across as a bit harsh or critical.. It's again purely curiosity for all the different new stuff I'm seeing in this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 So what is the actual point of the half n half neck? Ebony and Maple - two similarly bright tone woods making . . . it much the same as a whole ebony or maple board. Now if it had a rosewood for the bass 3 strings and Ebony on the high 3 strings I could actually see 'some' conceptual reasoning behind it. In my eyes its a Tom Gigliotti guitar with TV Jones pickups and TT frets. . . oh and a custom strap (quite what that has to do with a build I don't know!). As for my tail piece comment I meant located as in there ain't no bridge - just a tailpiece - not a bridge in sight and the fact that that then progress pictures show furrule holes . . a tad pointless as the main advert. As said if your intention is to sell it you might have a better chance with a correctly scaled and 'workable' mock up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge for november Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I reckon he doesn't want to sell it, but is just extremely enthousiastic about a guitar that's being built exactly according to his wishes. I agree on the ebony and maple, yet it does look pretty cool! That justifies it by a long shot! . Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 i get the feeling that some parts on this guitar are not there for playability or looks but are put on there so that the guitar is different, eg: Bolt on neck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 To be fair some of you guys are starting to sound like a girl stepped into your "all boys" playhouse...could we give it a rest and let the guy build his guitar? Maybe something about it might tickle your fancy and you could use it as inspiration for your own guitars.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 i get the feeling that some parts on this guitar are not there for playability or looks but are put on there so that the guitar is different, eg: Bolt on neck Nothing wrong with bolt-on necks - I personally prefer them to set neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 No offense to the design or your belief that you are producing something innovative; you are just barking up the wrong tree here. Posting hype on this forum is like asking to be hit on. The fact that 1/2 the senior members here could dupe the design without blinking makes it less innovative in my opinion. If you had posted your design as an idea minus the TV Jones nonsense you may have gotten some legitimate feedback. We are builders for the most part you didnt expect us to jump on the band wagon did you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I've been thinking the exact same thing, especially with all the salesman-like hype. Seriously Momo, stop being an infomercial announcer and just be a guy who's working with some other guys to build a guitar. You'll catch a lot less flack, and probably start to get some honest enthusiasm, maybe even some productive input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I like it, I think it's cool, I -love- the paint design/motif, I like the rounded edges, I think 2 pickups would have sufficed just fine, but so what, that's just my opinion. Now y'all go smoke some bush weed or something, relax, come back, say hello, and introduce yourself like the polite, nice-mannered guitar builders you all know you are. Hiya Momo. Looks beautiful. Maybe a pkp or two too many for me, but still looks great. I like the combination of TV Jones pickups with the hollowbody approach, and the gold(ish) color, should be a great sound. I love vintage Gretch guitars, I love goldtops, and I love V's too, so I think it's a very cool blending of ideas. ...What ya gonna do with all those pickups tho? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Hey momo, Welcome to the forum. Nice guitar btw. Not a huge V fan myself but it does look pretty cool. Those frets are pretty interesting, might check out some more info about them. Would hate to do a refret though I can understand why some of the guys on here are abit harsh cause your a pretty full on dude. Its your job to be like that though. An unmotivated motivator wouldn't work now would it! Anyway i think you mean well and are pretty psyched with the project so goodluck with it. Cheers from OZ! Chad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I like it, I think it's cool, I -love- the paint design/motif, I like the rounded edges, I think 2 pickups would have sufficed just fine, but so what, that's just my opinion. Sorry Drak I disagree, I think your guitars are nicer. Ok I do like the split fingerboard and may try it, but its not a new concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Ok I do like the split fingerboard and may try it, but its not a new concept. I've been wanting to try the "melted tops" that Conklin uses. It wouldn't be that hard to do with a scroll saw. Now, if you did it with a fretboard, wouldn't there be issues with the pressure from the truss rod against the joint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissism Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think the fingerboard's fine. It looks neat. I've actually always wanted a fretless neck with graphite laminates that run up the fretboard directly under the strings. It'd save me a lot in aluminum tape and it probably wouldn't change my sound as much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Ok I do like the split fingerboard and may try it, but its not a new concept. I've been wanting to try the "melted tops" that Conklin uses. It wouldn't be that hard to do with a scroll saw. Now, if you did it with a fretboard, wouldn't there be issues with the pressure from the truss rod against the joint? There shouldn't be an issue if the fingerboard blank is jointed and glued properly. Remember that in most cases the glue joint is stronger than the surrounding wood I did this when matching the sappy zebrano on my wife's Les Paul, which I incidentally need to get some more work done on soon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Ok I do like the split fingerboard and may try it, but its not a new concept. I've been wanting to try the "melted tops" that Conklin uses. It wouldn't be that hard to do with a scroll saw. Now, if you did it with a fretboard, wouldn't there be issues with the pressure from the truss rod against the joint? There shouldn't be an issue if the fingerboard blank is jointed and glued properly. Remember that in most cases the glue joint is stronger than the surrounding wood I did this when matching the sappy zebrano on my wife's Les Paul, which I incidentally need to get some more work done on soon.... I agree if propery glued the joint should be stronger than the wood. As far as using a jig saw I dont think so, a router is the tool of choice here. I read a thread here or on another forum discussing the process and the router bit selection. Its just a math problem actually with bit and guide distances along with a single pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Seems like if you layed the two pieces of wood of wood on top of each other and cut the pattern you wish with whatever you are using through both at the same time,you will have two perfectly matching sets of tops...one opposite of the other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 That's my thought as well. Doing this with a scroll saw, I'd set the table at an angle so that the edges of the cut would be at a bevel. This would make the joint a LOT more forgiving with matching it up and filling/hiding any small gaps. Granted, there shouldn't be any gaps to hide/fill, but we're humans, not CNC/laser machines. Yea... I HAVE to give this a shot sometime this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Oh, you stole my damn secret you bastards . I also have read those Conklin threads, and I was laughing actually, because I was doing that kind of stuff with my scroll saw 10 years ago or more, and it 'taint no big thing. So long ago I believe I have some pics of what I did, mostly burl work...they're on 35mm, before I ever started using a digital camera, if that helps you date how long ago it was. Conklin ain't got nuddin' on old Drak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I'd set the table at an angle so that the edges of the cut would be at a bevel. This would make the joint a LOT more forgiving with matching it up and filling/hiding any small gaps. I don't think there would be any gaps at all..if you wandered off the line a bit,both pieces would wander at the same time..and if the line is curvy,like the conklin tops,then it would not matter at all... And if you used say,Amboyna burl and Camphor burl,for example...how would you ever see a less than perfectly flowing line? But of you used a pattern as a template and a router,I would think steady hands would get you perfect....say you made a shop table with a 1" thick top with the edge painstakingly made in just the flowing pattern you wanted and used it as your router guitde with a handheld router and flush trim bit with the bearing on the bottom...then you could repeat the exact cut with many different types of wood and mix-n-match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Yup, no bevel is necessary, or you need directions on how to use a scrollsaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Yup, no bevel is necessary, or you need directions on how to use a scrollsaw. I agree that it isn't necessary. I'd do it for insurance. I'd only use a 3-5 degree bevel, just like what you use to make a scroll saw inlay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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