docroc5 Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hello there! I was on your website and hope that you can help me with my quest. I am looking for a good onboard guitar preamp that would produce a smooth amp overdrive and could be used in conjunction with an onboard gain knob control. I am in the process of recreating the Andy Summers Telecaster ( and have NO intention of paying the 15 grand that Fender wants for one) which has an onboard preamp with DPDT toggle kill switch and a gain knob. The preamp I have in there now is less than satisfactory. It was one I purchased from Guitarfetish.com (their F40 25Bb onboard preamp) which makes the guitar louder but does not overdrive the amp in the WONDERFUL way that the onboard preamp on my 1979 Ibanez MC400 does. I wrote to Ibanez to get a schematic for that preamp but they never wrote back. If anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate them! THANKS! Regards, Anthony ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfisher Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 (edited) How about this http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/Rangemaster/drm.htm Edited June 27, 2007 by kingfisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Seems like the Ibanez one might have some distortion circuitry going on? A level boost is a level boost, but if you're using them both in the same amp and getting different results, there must be something 'more' to the Ibanez one. Either distortion or at least EQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Schematic for the MC400: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/12/5874.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docroc5 Posted June 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Schematic for the MC400: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/12/5874.jpg WOO HOOOOOOO!! Thank you SO much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 WOO HOOOOOOO!! Thank you SO much! Third hit on google for "ibanez mc400" That circuit is a pretty standard affair... nothing magical about it. I suspect that any wonderful overdrive you're getting out of the preamp is due more to the specific opamp in the circuit than anything else. It's probably worthwhile to build the circuit with a socket for the IC, then swap chips until you find one you really like. Also, you could open up your Ibanez and see what chip they're using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPA or death Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 I would be interested to see if this idea worked, or if anyone else has had any success with the boost circuit of the Summers tele. There are several options but I wonder if the Clapton boost would be close enough since they appear to be the same thing except for a part or two. Any ideas on reproducing a Summers tele would be great here, as I'm on the verge of starting one myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Build the Tillman preamp with a 6.8uf or 10uF bypass cap on the FET, you'll pummel the input of your amp. http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 +1 on the Tillman preamp. I'm also a big fan of the Electro Harmonix LPB circuit. Either of those two are so small you can cram them anywhere - the battery is usually bigger than the circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 You could try things like the runoffgroove fetzer which is similar but perhaps a little more grainy than the tillman. Nice find on the ibanez preamp...but I think part of the secret is in the three band EQ. The IC is a 4556 but you could use something like a TL072 or use a socket and try out various dual op amps...most are pin compatable. Part of the other thing with this kind of preamp is that it is in two stages, the eq and preamp so it is possible that it could be set so the first amp is overpowering the second stage creating overdrive before hitting the amp. Another important factor is the pickup strength...if you have powerful pickups into the preamp, this will overdrive this and cause more overdrive...if you have low powered pickups you can get an almost icepick like response with some circuits as all that clarity and high frequency response will hit the amp hard. This could be a particular problem with telecaster pickups. The kind of amp you are going into will make a huge difference too...overdriving a solid state or digital effects often gives a very unattractive overdrive effect...grainy more than anything. There are a bunch of things out there and if not going for strict authenticity, you might consider and artec expander kind of thing which has boost controlled by the volume and a couple of tone shaping modes...or the mid boost, or even those overdrive circuits...I think GF have rebadge them as their own, not the mod boards though. Always been an Andy summers fan, but the preamp was in his guitar when he got it from a student and I don't think this is necessarily "vital" to the sound so much or anything special, it's probably something lkike the tillman or a basic 741 circuit given the era it was put together...so, a range of preamps should do as well if not better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 something that people forget when the offer up socketing the chip is explanation of why different chips sound different. whether it be slew rates. or other such "mojo" there are very viable reasons for changing chips in a preamp it all depends on what you want. alot of people really love the old 4558. lol i guess its one of those love hate things. but slightly side stepping topic here the previous mentioned chip has no real treble response. which is why it sounds great in a ts9 or copy. the 741 was obosolete and noisy when it hit the market but they stamped a billion or ten of them so what do you do but use them. personally i dig the tlc2262 for all my dual opamp needs but mainly cause it is r to r opamp that clips very smooth. something to help influence your decisions perhaps. ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPA or death Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 You could try things like the runoffgroove fetzer which is similar but perhaps a little more grainy than the tillman. Nice find on the ibanez preamp...but I think part of the secret is in the three band EQ. The IC is a 4556 but you could use something like a TL072 or use a socket and try out various dual op amps...most are pin compatable. Part of the other thing with this kind of preamp is that it is in two stages, the eq and preamp so it is possible that it could be set so the first amp is overpowering the second stage creating overdrive before hitting the amp. Another important factor is the pickup strength...if you have powerful pickups into the preamp, this will overdrive this and cause more overdrive...if you have low powered pickups you can get an almost icepick like response with some circuits as all that clarity and high frequency response will hit the amp hard. This could be a particular problem with telecaster pickups. The kind of amp you are going into will make a huge difference too...overdriving a solid state or digital effects often gives a very unattractive overdrive effect...grainy more than anything. There are a bunch of things out there and if not going for strict authenticity, you might consider and artec expander kind of thing which has boost controlled by the volume and a couple of tone shaping modes...or the mid boost, or even those overdrive circuits...I think GF have rebadge them as their own, not the mod boards though. Always been an Andy summers fan, but the preamp was in his guitar when he got it from a student and I don't think this is necessarily "vital" to the sound so much or anything special, it's probably something lkike the tillman or a basic 741 circuit given the era it was put together...so, a range of preamps should do as well if not better. Yeah, I saw a YouTube video of the Fender Custom Shop guy demonstrating the Andy Summers Tele and if I remember correctly, he said Andy told him the preamp was dead when he got the guitar. I've studied close-up pics of both the circuit used in the Summers and the one used in the Clapton Strat and they are very similar. So no one knows if the new Tele sounds like the original preamp, but I do know that the one Fender uses sounds really good. Like you said, it's not vital to the Police sound necessarily, but it sure is cool. But surely there are many boosts that would do a good job. I've been looking at several at DIYstompboxes.com and other places, trying to find a one knob (level) version to try in my Tele project. The cool thing about little boards like these is they cost next to nothing to make so you can afford to experiment until you get what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Are TL062s still available? I would have thought a low-power version of the TL072 would be preferable...or are there compromises in the real-world performance due to the low-power design compared to straight TL072s? It's been years since i've played in the active electronics market. :-Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesy Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Build the Tillman preamp with a 6.8uf or 10uF bypass cap on the FET, you'll pummel the input of your amp. http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp/ I like the idea of a FET preamp too. I'd even go further, and try a tube preamp. Maybe power it via phantom power as used for microphones. The interaction of tube microphonics and guitar vibrations might lead to interesting effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Along the lines of the tube idea - you could try using these tiny 6021 tubes that are a feature of the ZVex Nano Heads. mini-tubes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesy Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Along the lines of the tube idea - you could try using these tiny 6021 tubes that are a feature of the ZVex Nano Heads. mini-tubes Yes they would work well, although, with the 2" thickness of a guitar, I could easily fit a 12AX7 sideways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 hehehe...you guys are just getting crazy now...you know when you see those valves in effects units they are largely token...you can tell because they require an LED behind them to even light them up. The risk of damage to any tube in a guitar is pretty great, but hey, they might make an interesting talking point. In fact, you can use LED's in some circuits as clipping diodes which would look cool and add a bit of grit! I recently read somewhere that the AS preamp was some kind of distortion perhaps...but really, any of the fetzer or tillman type things would do the job...or even some simple overdrive circuits. One cool thing about this kind of mod is that once wired in, a lot of different preamp circuits are interchangable with the switches and controls...with an op-amp circuit, the whole chip could be replaced if using a socket. TL072's are still standard, you can even still get the noisy 741...TLo61, TL081 and others are interchangeable with different levels of noise versus power consumption but with a circuits like these, a battery will last a long time. I'd leave the valves to amps or at best something on the floor...to get tube warmth, valves have to run pretty hot and that means a lot of power...not something that you really want or need to have running inside a guitar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesy Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 hehehe...you guys are just getting crazy now...you know when you see those valves in effects units they are largely token...you can tell because they require an LED behind them to even light them up. The risk of damage to any tube in a guitar is pretty great, but hey, they might make an interesting talking point. I'd leave the valves to amps or at best something on the floor...to get tube warmth, valves have to run pretty hot and that means a lot of power...not something that you really want or need to have running inside a guitar! Well, you are right, sometimes they are just for appearance - but, for example, some of the BEST microphones use tube preamps inside them. I design and build valve amps as a sideline/hobby by the way. Not all valves run that hot, especially the miniature ones designed for battery and/or low voltage use. Besides the "Control Cover" for the compartment where the valve is installed, can easily be ventilated. All that said, I can use a FET to do virtually the same thing, and I'll bet most people could never tell the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I thought I might bump this up for future reference on the Andy Summers Telecaster... I was a fan of the police in the day and AS's playing still influences my playing...so, although I missed the reunion tour I did watch the video of "certifiable" live in Buenos Airies which is a great DVD and CD package and showed what a great band they were and what great players they still are. What reminded me of this thread was for the entire concert the telecaster made an appearance on only one song (everything she does is magic) while the rest was played with a red rosewood fretboard ordinary strat. Even when the tele was played it appears only the bridge pickup was used and I didn't see or here any use of the preamp. Much of the police sound was with a strat and it did appear in a few of their clips...certainly the tele is an iconic guitar, but it is not necessary to the actual police sound. The effects were a huge part in this and I noticed he had someone switching them for him. Still an innovative band, great drumming by stewart copeland and sting's playing and singing is still in top form (love him or hate him)...and they did have some great songs. 3 piece bands can still sound great. Anyway, some recent threads have been about the desire for an LP for the Zep sound, much of which was a tele on record and here again, what you see is not necessarily what you hear! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 side note if you watch the zvex video on the nano head or is it the dual ipod head the shock factor is something like 50g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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