another doug Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Ah. I wasn't taking into account that the fretboard section of the neck was raised to account for the bridge height. I think I get it now. Of the two options you gave above, I would have the fretboard end at the body (the pic on the right). That really doesn't look all that different from normal, whereas having no frets on an otherwise playable portion of the neck would look like you made a mistake (you did, but there's no reason why it should look like you did ). Good luck with whatever you decide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Ah. I wasn't taking into account that the fretboard section of the neck was raised to account for the bridge height. I think I get it now. Of the two options you gave above, I would have the fretboard end at the body (the pic on the right). That really doesn't look all that different from normal, whereas having no frets on an otherwise playable portion of the neck would look like you made a mistake (you did, but there's no reason why it should look like you did ). Good luck with whatever you decide! yeah, thats what i was thinking too. the only issue is the bridge would be further down on the body, but ill live i guess. im just used to my sg bridge placement on my gibson. also, does anyone know of any guitars with 19 frets? or are most 20+? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Alright then. I take it that you haven't glued the fretboard down yet and the body wings are still not attached to the neck block and you haven't drilled your bridge holes. I also understand that you opted to raise the fb to accomodate the height of the TOM bridge. Another option I didn't mention along with cutting a neck angle and / or recessing the bridge. So there was too much length to the fretboard for the ledge you cut at the neck joint area? Your problem wasn't with the headstock it was at the other end. I understand that thinning it down caused everything to shift towards the butt of the guitar. You cut your ledge at the neck joint area too soon which resulted in an overhang with the original length fretboard, right? That is the problem. You could have easily cut and fit a block for that area to extend the ledge further towards the butt and avoid overhanging the original length fretboard. You still CAN! PM'ed you again. Edited January 25, 2007 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Alright then. I take it that you haven't glued the fretboard down yet and the body wings are still not attached to the neck block and you haven't drilled your bridge holes. I also understand that you opted to raise the fb to accomodate the height of the TOM bridge. Another option I didn't mention along with cutting a neck angle and / or recessing the bridge. So there was too much length to the fretboard for the ledge you cut at the neck joint area? Your problem wasn't with the headstock it was at the other end. I understand that thinning it down caused everything to shift towards the butt of the guitar. You cut your ledge at the neck joint area too soon which resulted in an overhang with the original length fretboard, right? That is the problem. You could have easily cut and fit a block for that area to extend the ledge further towards the butt and avoid overhanging the original length fretboard. You still CAN! PM'ed you again. Yeah, my problem was cutting the fingerboard height part of the neck (the ledge) too early which was a mistake. I don't have the piece of the fingerboard anymore that I cut off (dumb, I know, but lesson learned), so it looks like my only choice is to go with the picture on the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 by the way, thank you everyone who has been offering advice and experience along the way, you have no idea how much it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) oh well, so it goes. yes I guess the shorter guitar version will do. You bridge will end up closer to the butt of the guitar but that can't be helped. You still have the option to extend your fretboard at a later date if you went with the pic on the left. Could buy a small chunk of ebony somewhere and fashion a piece to go on top of a neck extension block. But as I mentioned you will have to deal with the binding and epoxying in a fret at the joint. Anyway, if you are happy with it then so am I. Good luck and take it in stride. Edited January 25, 2007 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 oh well, so it goes. yes I guess the shorter guitar version will do. You bridge will end up closer to the butt of the guitar but that can't be helped. You still have the option to extend your fretboard at a later date if you went with the pic on the left. Could buy a small chunk of ebony somewhere and fashion a piece to go on top of a neck extension block. But as I mentioned you will have to deal with the binding and epoxying in a fret at the joint. Anyway, if you are happy with it then so am I. Good luck and take it in stride. im pretty pumped at how its come out so far, and this is the only set back that i can think of. ive played some sg jr's and les paul jr's, and i have to say that i liked the shorter neck, so either way i suppose im cool. the next guitar i do will be much better none the less, and since this was my first build it was really just a learning process for me, but in the end ill have a sweet guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 $38 for an ebony board and $5 for binding and another $5-10 for inlays from stew mac just isnt something I can afford after spending over $450 already on everything (I'mm in college haha). I think the opposite way, surely its worth spending that little bit extra to get it right - even if you have to wait till you have the extra cash. It will work fine but everyone will always ask you why it only has 19 and personally i would be to aware of the mistake to enjoy the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_ado Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 ok i dont have much of an idea and i could get slaughtered here but ohh well couldnt u just move the wings up to get it looking right and then move the bridge back to get its to scale??? and who cares if its got 19 frets u made it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 and who cares if its got 19 frets u made it When you have finished a guitar and you are showing it to people, they will wonder why and some will see it as a flaw. If you dont mind that i suppose its fine. Personally i really enjoy seeing people play my guitars with enthusiasm and awe, and i like it when they realise the guitar is generally better than the factory made equivilent. I think something like this would detract from that feeling, even if the guitar played perfectly and sounded great - it will still be seen by some as being sub-standard. And it really isnt that much to solve the problem now - surely its worth doing it properly! Really it doesnt matter how many frets he puts on it if hes never gonna use a fret above the 19th, ceratinly deosnt matter to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 and who cares if its got 19 frets u made it When you have finished a guitar and you are showing it to people, they will wonder why and some will see it as a flaw. If you dont mind that i suppose its fine. Personally i really enjoy seeing people play my guitars with enthusiasm and awe, and i like it when they realise the guitar is generally better than the factory made equivilent. I think something like this would detract from that feeling, even if the guitar played perfectly and sounded great - it will still be seen by some as being sub-standard. And it really isnt that much to solve the problem now - surely its worth doing it properly! Really it doesnt matter how many frets he puts on it if hes never gonna use a fret above the 19th, ceratinly deosnt matter to me. You are very right, but as far as I am concerned I will be very happy with 19 frets so I'm going to go with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Thats all that counts in the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 very true but I can't count the times that I've regretted NOT doing something. Personally I'd rather regret waisting a fingerboard & some dots for a few weeks than regret NOT taking a bit more time, spending a little more cash & have a 1st class instrument for the rest of my life. An extra few bucks & a few more weeks, or even months, isn't much in the grand scheme of things....& you'll know that you made a mistake but you learnt from it & corrected it rather than shyed away from it. My father-in-law says that," anyone can make a cock-up but only a tradesman can put it right" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I've done a TON of thinking, measuring, and making layouts on my guitar in the past 24 hours. I've weighed out my options and I am definitely going to keep the 19 frets. Its not even a time or money issue any more, actually. I have a crappy beater Epiphone Les Paul Jr which as you guys know has a shorter scale and thus a shorter neck than other guitars. I actually prefer the shorter neck, and since I can still use a normal Gibson scale, I am very happy. I have made some adjustments and modifications and the guitar looks flawless the way I have it layed out, and since the neck is shorter it should be easier to play and have the center of mass closer to the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I have a crappy beater Epiphone Les Paul Jr which as you guys know has a shorter scale and thus a shorter neck than other guitars. I actually prefer the shorter neck, and since I can still use a normal Gibson scale, I am very happy. Maybe its the slight difference in tension that makes you prefer the shorter neck - you are still using the 'normal' Gibson scale (whatever that happens to be today) and the feel of the guitar wont be more like the shorter scale guitar just because it has a shorter neck. My advice. If you want to live with your mistake thats fine - but please dont try and justify it and make out its an improvement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 One more voice saying replace or rpeair, don't fudge it. You *will* regret it later, when it's too late to do anything about it. A simple shim under the last few frets, with a new fretboard and binding will make the difference between a really nice looking piece, and a guitar which will never look quite right. Whatever you do, be aware that: 1. Junior's use the exact same scale length as SG and LP standards. They do not have a shorter scale. 2. You guitar will still use the same scale length, it'll simply have a larger gap between the end of the fretboard and the bridge. Like Wes says, do what you feel you have to, but don't front. It's a cockup, and an understandable one which could easily happen to a an inexperienced builder (or anyone if they happen to have a brain fart at the wrong moment). It isn;t a feature, and it isn't going to make the guitar better, or even as good, as if it hadn't happened. It is, however, easy to fix, and that's what I'd do. Saving a few pennies now is a false economy. Listen to the voice of experience - the people telling you this are the same folks who have luthiery skeletons in their closets, and who want you to avoid the mistakes which still bug them to this day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 2. You guitar will still use the same scale length, it'll simply have a larger gap between the end of the fretboard and the bridge. The bridge will just have to be set back further than usual. There is now the option to throw in a 3rd pickup, lemons to lemonade I always say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 1. Junior's use the exact same scale length as SG and LP standards. They do not have a shorter scale. I wasnt sure whether epiphone had ever done a shorter scale on a jnr so i didnt question it. The fact remains that shortening the neck whilst keeping the scale length standard will not get you closer to the feel of a guitar with a shorter scale length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) Guys I wasn't making it out to be a feature of the guitar since it would have a shorter neck. I really appreciate all of the advice. Simply moving the bridge back on the guitar while keeping the same nut to bridge distance is all that it will take to make this guitar happen as it is. I've weighed out my options, and making the decision to go with 19 frets isn't something I've come to 'deal with', its a decision to take on side of a fork in the road. Time and money are not influencing me in this decision, it is simply a matter of choice A or choice B. Hopefully that better explains my reasoning. Am I still wrong for believing this? I know I am a first time guitar builder and everyone here has been more than helpful with my build, but honestly, 19 frets won't just be a coverup of a mistake of mine. Granted one instance led to it being 19 frets, the guitar will still play and look great. The bridge is only being moved toward the base of the guitar a little bit (about an inch) and since it is a wrap around tune o matic it won't look odd in its position because most SGs have a TOM bridge and then the tailpiece. The location of my TOM bridge is in between where it would be on a typical SG. Edited January 27, 2007 by wwwdotcomdotnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyManAndy Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) That neck looks very nice. Glad to see some more progress. As far as the screw up goes, if you're cool with that, then gravy. If I were building the guitar, I'd probably just redo it, but that is just how I am. No moral dilemma here. Besides, if anyone asks about it, just say it was a "custom job" . CMA Edited January 29, 2007 by CrazyManAndy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted January 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 That neck looks very nice. Glad to see some more progress. As far as the screw up goes, if you're cool with that, then gravy. If I were building the guitar, I'd probably just redo it, but that is just how I am. No moral dilemma here. Besides, if anyone asks about it, just say it was a "custom job" . CMA haha, i can always say it was custom. but then ill just tell them one thing led to another and that is how the guitar came out, and im more than happy with it. i guess it does make the guitar somewhat unique, but im not fooling anyone by saying i meant for it to be like that. i still think its going to be cool with the shorter nut to body distance. i should have the taper cut by tuesday and the body will be glued by the end of the week! im excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Body thickness sanded, glue lines removed Neck before spokeshave Neck profile, still needs sanding This week I should have some routing finished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted February 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 pickup cavities control cavity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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