WezV Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Nice !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 I really, really like that. Very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 What Robert, Wez and Mattia said; that looks great! Stiking, yet subtle and not too 'in your face'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdstone Posted May 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Thanks guys for the comments. I had some more time so I dressed the frets. This went well as the frets were very even so not much leveling had to be done. Then polished them with 400 , 600,1000 , 1200 wetand dry and then some chrome polish. Also I filed the ends of the frets so to get rid of any sharp edges. neck frets dressed. After staining the top I let it dry overnight . I oiled the body all over with Danish oil. It went on okay with minimal stain pulling out which I was worried about. The result is that the light tones have popped out more than I imagined they would .This has the affect of reducing the transitions of the burst alot. First I was worried that the transitions were too obvious but now I would have liked them to be more.Cant win!! The burst is more obvious than in the pic, it looks like the light I used blew out any subtulty. The mahogany back and sides have darken to a nice rich natural tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~john~ Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 when you going to drill the holes for the bridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdstone Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 when you going to drill the holes for the bridge The plan is to fit the nut to the neck and do a guide cut then glue the neck on. I'll fit the two e string machine heads and string up the bridge with these two strings. This will allow me to check the bridge position alignment with the neck and pup poles. Any very minor adjustments will still be able to be done. As I have worked off a center line there should'nt be any alignment problems but this gives me an option if there is. Normaly i would have drilled them by now but I wanted to give this a try after my last one was a knats dick out . I have increased the burst border dark tones with a bit of jarrah wich seems to have brought everything back to what I was aiming for. The second coat of Danish oil is drying over night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I also like holding off on drilling the bridge studs till the neck's in place. With a good sharp drill bit and a drill press it's fine to do after finishing, guarantees perfect alignment, and means you don't have to clean clearcoat out of your pre-drilled holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdstone Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 (edited) The drilling for the bridge is no big deal. Its a wrap around style so its onlt two holes. More progress after the second oil coat back of the body showing unusual grain in the mahogany. The side view shows the nice contrast between the two woods. I did contemplate binding earlier but now Iam glad I didn't use it. The waist cut was left out after some serious pondering. Side View The faded style burst has come together after some last minute addition of some more dark stain to the edges and horns. I took the faded burst idea from looking at a book of mine that has lots of detailed photos of 1955-1960 Les Paul sunburst guitars. I somehow wanted to recreate that look. Now to make up some control acvity covers whilst the the finish drys..Cio Edited May 14, 2006 by thirdstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~john~ Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 it stunning, shame gibson don't make em look that good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salter Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Im glad you went back and added a little mor eto the burst it looks stunning now cant wait to see this one finished ! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasty Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Wow man thats awesome. I really want to build a paul now. How do you attach a set neck with a tenon? Glue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 So is this the 'old-style' Gibson tenon that I read about here? Seems like the 'tenon' is actually the full width of the heel, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 (edited) I don't believe Gibson tenons (even long tenon) tend to be the full width of the heel; just either longer than the fingerboard, or not. Not sure about the juniors. Full-width tenons are relatively common in other brands. The downside to them is simple: harder to hide ANY gaps or faults in the joint. If they're set inwards a little, the fingerboard will cover all. Edited May 19, 2006 by Mattia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Correct. The Gibson 'long tenon' is simply longer than the existing one, and appreciably better fitted, not any wider. On the MIMF John Catto speculated that the reason the long tenon is so revered has much more to do with the fact it was well fitted, and very little to do with the extra inch of length. The neck joint above is like the LP junior neck joint. I wish I could find the comparisson shot of the long and short tenons - it dissapeared from the net after Gibson realised it was putting people off by revealing how *appaulingly* the tenons on their guitars fitted! Edit - Aha, Archive.org saves the day. Here's the shot: http://web.archive.org/web/20020725041908/...r/tenonhalf.jpg You can see how poorly the modern joint is fitted - hell, the long tenon has more gaps than I'd be comfortable with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 (edited) Here's the shot: http://web.archive.org/web/20020725041908/...r/tenonhalf.jpg You can see how poorly the modern joint is fitted - hell, the long tenon has more gaps than I'd be comfortable with! Holy hell...I mean, I'm hard on Gibson because their finishes are often sub-par, their fretwork shoddy, general detailing not that great, but I wouldn't be comfortable with either of those joints. The short tennon's completely and utterly unacceptable, but the long tenon isn't far off; I mean, I want a solid connection with the bottom of the mortise. That's a huge amount of gluing surface right there. What I do find interesting is that they both seem to have little grooves in the fingerboards to 'lock' the binding (which has a matching little nib) in place. And the short tenon seems to have a wood(?) dowel/indexing pin hiding under an inlay.. Edited May 19, 2006 by Mattia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I thought the binding tabs were interesting. Makes sense in a production setting - rebate the edges of the fretboard, pop the binding in place - minimal scraping, get it to line up exactly where you want it. etc. They might even mould the little 'nubs' to cover the fret ends into the binding to save time. Funny thing about the dowel under the inlay - it doesn't extend into the maple underneath... whoknows what it was for, maybe to attach the fretboard to a jig earlier in the production process. As for the joints - well, what can you say! I aim for full contact on all surfaces. I don't always get it, but I get *damn* close. I'm sure the Gibson joints are still structurally good - the sides must be in pretty good contact, but those gaps can't do anything good for the tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I'm sure the Gibson joints are still structurally good - the sides must be in pretty good contact, but those gaps can't do anything good for the tone. Does wonders for my sense of confidence though I mean, if Gibson can get away with that, then I don't have to be in such a panic about it either... But is an LP Junior joint different from a regular LP joint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Yes. http://www.guitarfix.com/fixed6.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Yes. http://www.guitarfix.com/fixed6.htm Ouch! You should warn people when posting links to carnage like this. Funny how there are so many broken Gibsons... So the LP Junior joint looks to be wider then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Don't have nightmares - click the picture and you can see it all back together again Yep, the junior joint is the full fretboard width, and consequently they added a lip in the cutaway so it wouldn't feather out to nothing. I'll be posting a modified version of the joint fairly soon - yet another person building a Jr style guitbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_the_damned Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 bloody hell that 'short' tenon is really cr@p eh? strangely I think Epiphone guitars are built with a tenon style more like the 'long' tenons you can certainly see the tenon in the neck pickup route in my Epi! I'm guessing the curved bottom on the top one would be something to do with being able to get at least some contact no matter what angle the neck was pitched at? also had anyone else noticed how the inlay with the 'dowel' beneith it isn't at the same depth all the way along? I would have thought all the inlay routing would have been automated Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdstone Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Intresting discussion, I can't beleive the cross section of the join.Is that a real gibson?? I had a real good look at the finish and noticed two sanding scratches so the problem was that I would have to sand through the finish to gt to them. I could have left tham as I doubt that anyone ould have noticed. I also still had an issue with the burst, I thought that the burst around the rear was too subtle.So I took a big breath and sanded the finish off ( sanded body ) The next set of shots are of the new finish process. yellow stain first burst Second burst , no oil on yet. From my experiance when the oil goes on it will reduce the burst transition contrast and even it up a bit. Tomorrow I will seal the stain in. and hopefully get some oil on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Looks Great... again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 That is indeed a real Gibson (check the URL), furthermore it's a guitar the company specifically chose to showcase on their website to illustrate the difference bewteen the modern short tenon and the 50's style long tenon. They pulled it pretty quickly when everyone who looked at it questioned the *huge* voids surrounding the tenon! A bit of an own goal really... The new burst looks really nice, and you're in good company with the whole 'back-to-wood'n'start-over' technique, I shudder to think how many times I removed and resprayed my last sunburst! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 The new burst looks really nice, and you're in good company with the whole 'back-to-wood'n'start-over' technique, I shudder to think how many times I removed and resprayed my last sunburst! For two scratches? Couldn't do it myself...but then, there's nothing I admire more than a well-played, nicely scratched and scuffed guitar... When I was in London a few weeks ago, I went into a store with an amazing collections of vintage guitars --including a 50s era LP Jr, of course. After that, I went into a store with new guitars...all those shiny, flawless guitars...left me cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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