Checking Levels

[daveq]

I'll see if I can post some samples but I think I'm having some problems with my input/output levels. I have a pretty nice rack system which I am plugging into my PC (E-MU card) and using Home Studio 2.

For the most part, the levels appear OK in the effects processors that have a level meter available. The only exception is my Eventide 7500 - the input levels are showing a bit low. I contacted them about this and for my setup, they think this is still going to be OK.

So, is there any good way to know if I need to back things off a bit or boost the levels when doing PC recording? Is there a general rule that says you need to be within a certain range?

I know having the sound samples would help a lot and I'll do my best to remember to post some tonight. If it helps, the problem I'm hearing is that the notes aren't quite clear enough. It's very hard to explain - it's almost like there's noise introduced only when I pick. When I'm sustaining a note or mute the strings, the noise doesn't seem to be there.

I can supply the order of effects also if it would help.

[Gorecki]

It's really hard to tell Dave but from the sounds of it what you've described is almost as if a noise gate is hard switching in and out, there isn't by chance something in your chain inducing that?

Also, that Eventide's a pricy box, would think it's clean and no auto-noise reduction involved, even a slightly low input signal should be okay. Most often units have a -10 db and +4 db input/output toggles and if the unit in the chain prior to the Eventide is running at -10 db, you're getting what you should as a signal. If your in/out chain has a anything using +4db will often induce noise especially when chained.

The way you described noise when you pick, sounds like something is either not up to snuff (a DSP is failing or is just plain noisy) in something of the like but I'm guessing at this point.

[erikbojerik]

Are you using outboard effects into your sound card, or software plug-ins? A lot of plug-ins add gain.

Are you getting digital clipping of your tracks? Does the software have its own meter?

You might also check the latency and see if you can adjust the software correction for it (although you'd hear that if you were palm muting as well....).

[GregP]

As Erik alluded to, the only place where you really need to be checking is at the input level of your soundcard. If you have an onboard or Soundblaster-type card, it might not have metering. If you already have some pricey gear and want to record, I recommend plunking down for at least something like the Audiophile 24/96 if you don't have such a card already.

Other noise is often introduced by aggressive soundcard settings. Soundcard inputs operate using a 'buffer', and if the buffer is too small (which WILL give snappier real-time performance), you get pops and crackles during playing or playback.

Not sure that's what you're experiencing, mind... doesn't sound like it.

Digital recording is a slightly different game than the rules we're used to from analog tape world. It used to be with tape that you needed to 'print' as hot a signal to tape as possible. But in digital, if you record at 24- or 32-bit (not determined by the host's resolution, which is a different thing, but by the soundcard itself) you can safely record at -10dB average, peaking at -6dB or so, which gives you lots of room for accidental "mega-whacks" of your strings and so forth ("mega-whacks" being the technical term). Then once you've recorded, you can either destructively (ie. permanently on the audio file) or non-destructively (ie. using a virtual volume knob) bring your level up, without getting the 'tape hiss' that was a problem back in the day.

The problem with digital is that you absolutely cannot exceed 0db. The second you're at +0.000000000001 dB, you get a nasty-sounding digital clip. It might be small enough that you won't notice it, but it'll be there and it'll be irreversible. This is different from tape, in which the tape would naturally compress the signal and soft-clip it rather than truncate (hard, digital clip) it.

Greg

[daveq]

Thanks guys - here's some answers:

It's really hard to tell Dave but from the sounds of it what you've described is almost as if a noise gate is hard switching in and out, there isn't by chance something in your chain inducing that?

I have the noise gate enabled on the G-Major and on the POD Pro. The G-Major settings are:

Mode: soft

Thres: -60dB

Damp: 4 dB

Release: 42 dB/s

I don't know the params on the POD Pro's gate but it does seem to do a big job. When I disable it, I can hear the difference.

Are you using outboard effects into your sound card, or software plug-ins?

No software plug-ins. Outboard only.

Are you getting digital clipping of your tracks? Does the software have its own meter?

I don't think so. The meter in HomeStudio seems to hang around -18 dB.

I'm working on capturing some sound now. I don't even know if I'll be able to post anything yet but I'm going to give it a shot.

Here's how things are connected:

1. Berhinger Param EQ PEQ2200

2. POD Pro

Effects Send to:

3. Eventide DSP7500 balanced ins

4. Balanced outs to T.C. G-Major Balanced Ins

5. Balanced Outs to Berhinger Graphic EQ (ULTRAGRAPH) balanced ins

6. Balanced outs to IN A and IN B on BBE 362

7. OUT A and OUT B to effects return on POD Pro