westhemann Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 tone pros...no doubt.the differences are worth the extra $ ← Wes, do you mean the tone pros wrap around better than tone-pros TOM with strings through body, or better than other brands wrap around? If the latter, which do you think is better between the wrap-around vs strings through body? Cheers, Brian. ← i have no clue what you are trying to ask... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted July 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 I may buy the TonePros, but it's so expensive for those two parts!!! More suggestions (cheaper???) would be nice. I may go with the babygrand, but again, I'm just gonna keep thinking of your suggestions until I find the PERFECT combo/ single piece. I'm especially looking for something available on Stewmac (where I'm buying all my supplies for my PRS-like guitar ), so keep suggesting! Thanks, -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 the gotoh is almost the same..except it doesn't have the set screws and they don't feel as heavy...but they are much less expensive. all i can say is that if you can afford the tone pros...it is like the cadillac of the t.o.m. world,so to speak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) I am looking for a fixed bridge and saw this one and I think I like it a lot. I had seen it back when I was going to change out my trem on my Ibanez and never put any thought into because it wouldn't of worked without a difficult mod, but today when I saw it again I really liked it. This will be probably be my choice my my project, which will be my first project and I would like to keep it simple and smooth looking but classy. I thought I would just throw it in here with all the other options. Jason Hipshot Hardtail Edited July 5, 2005 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted July 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Wes and others, What do you think of using a different stop tailpiece with a tone pro's TOM??? If they have the same radius/post spacings, would that be alright do you think??? Well let me know what you think about mixing. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Wes and others, What do you think of using a different stop tailpiece with a tone pro's TOM??? If they have the same radius/post spacings, would that be alright do you think??? Well let me know what you think about mixing. -Matt ← you can do it..but the tailpeice is the part i like to have locked on the best...so it doesn't fall off during restringing and scratch the finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian d Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 tone pros...no doubt.the differences are worth the extra $ ← Wes, do you mean the tone pros wrap around better than tone-pros TOM with strings through body, or better than other brands wrap around? If the latter, which do you think is better between the wrap-around vs strings through body? Cheers, Brian. ← i have no clue what you are trying to ask... ← Hello Wes, Sorry if my question wasn't clear. You wrote that the TonePros is worth the extra $. My question is which tone pros (wrap around or with separate tailpiece) and worth the extra $ compared to what. In other words, do you think that the Tone Pros wrap around is better than using a "regular" Tone Pros TOM bridge with strings through body instead of a tailpiece? Which do you prefer between a Tone Pros TOM without a tailpiece compared to a (for example) Gotoh wraparound? I know the topic has morphed a bit, but I am interested in your opinion. The guitar I'm planning at the moment will have a Tone-Pros TOM with strings through body, but it's not too late to change it to a tail piece. Regards, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 i am not aware of a tone pros wrap around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian d Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 i am not aware of a tone pros wrap around. ← check out http://www.tonepros.com/Products.htm almost at the end. the model is called AVT2. it's also at http://wdmusicproducts.com/Merchant2/merch...egory_Code=TPWA As to "normal" TOM's what's you're opinion of tailpiece vs strings through body? Regards, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 OK please tell me would you rather have this combination of the Gotoh TOM and stopbar http://www.warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/br...es_tune_o_matic Or this combo one-piece http://www.warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/br...idges_gotoh_510 On a PRS-like guitar. Money doesn't matter, would you rather the one piece, or the two???? This is totally opinionated, I just want YOUR opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian d Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 OK please tell me would you rather have this combination of the Gotoh TOM and stopbar http://www.warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/br...es_tune_o_matic Or this combo one-piece http://www.warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/br...idges_gotoh_510 On a PRS-like guitar. Money doesn't matter, would you rather the one piece, or the two???? This is totally opinionated, I just want YOUR opinion. ← FWIW (I'm a newb, after all) for the sound I'm looking for at the moment, I wouldn't choose either. Of the 2, I prefer the look of the one piece, but I believe that the 2 piece will deliver more of the vibrations to the body and get more of the tonal influence from the wood. This is because the with the 1 piece the pressure from the strings onto the bridge is toward the nut, so the pressure from the bridge to the wood is basically on the posts away from the neck. The 2 piece has pressure from the strings pushing down on the bridge into the wood, so you get more vibrations into the wood and more colour from the wood. If you do strings through body instead of a tailpiece, there would be even more pressure going down onto the bridge allowing more influence of the wood. That's what I would choose (and what I'm planning to do for my next guitar) unless I have some misconceptions that someone would correct. BTW, I'm using a TonePros TOM since you mentioned that money doesn't matter. More expensive than the Gotoh's but I think it will give a better sound. Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 OK please tell me would you rather have this combination of the Gotoh TOM and stopbar http://www.warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/br...es_tune_o_matic Or this combo one-piece http://www.warmoth.com/hardware/bridges/br...idges_gotoh_510 On a PRS-like guitar. Money doesn't matter, would you rather the one piece, or the two???? This is totally opinionated, I just want YOUR opinion. ← FWIW (I'm a newb, after all) for the sound I'm looking for at the moment, I wouldn't choose either. Of the 2, I prefer the look of the one piece, but I believe that the 2 piece will deliver more of the vibrations to the body and get more of the tonal influence from the wood. This is because the with the 1 piece the pressure from the strings onto the bridge is toward the nut, so the pressure from the bridge to the wood is basically on the posts away from the neck. The 2 piece has pressure from the strings pushing down on the bridge into the wood, so you get more vibrations into the wood and more colour from the wood. If you do strings through body instead of a tailpiece, there would be even more pressure going down onto the bridge allowing more influence of the wood. That's what I would choose (and what I'm planning to do for my next guitar) unless I have some misconceptions that someone would correct. BTW, I'm using a TonePros TOM since you mentioned that money doesn't matter. More expensive than the Gotoh's but I think it will give a better sound. Cheers, Brian. ← Thanks Brian. I just saw these http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Hardware,_part...p_Ferrules.html in another topic, and do you think the use of these string-thru ferrules and a bridge would give that better sound with the use of a TonePros TOM?? is that what you're thinking? Also, could you give me a link (preferrably Stewmac) of what else I'd need to have the strings go through the body? I'm a TRUE newbie so thanks for all these answers. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian d Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Thanks Brian. I just saw these http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Hardware,_part...p_Ferrules.html in another topic, and do you think the use of these string-thru ferrules and a bridge would give that better sound with the use of a TonePros TOM?? is that what you're thinking? Also, could you give me a link (preferrably Stewmac) of what else I'd need to have the strings go through the body? I'm a TRUE newbie so thanks for all these answers. -Matt ← Hello Matt, Apart from the ferrules at the top of the body, you need different ferrules for the back. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Hardware,_part...g_Ferrules.html There's another recent thread about drilling the holes for the strings through body ferrules....you should read it if you decide to go in that direction. The ferrules don't really do anything significant for the sound. The back ones hold the string in at the back, and the front ones stop the string from cutting into the wood at the top. The tone comes from the downwards pressure the strings put on the bridge, not from the ferrules. That applies to any brand of TOM. The TonePros TOM has the advantage of locking posts...that is, there is a locking connection between the bridge body and the posts, so the vibrations travel better to the wood. And TonePros has fantastic customer service too. Very helpful folk there. Hope this helps, Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 The 2 piece has pressure from the strings pushing down on the bridge into the wood, so you get more vibrations into the wood and more colour from the wood. ← Man, I'd love to see some research that shows whether this is actually true. To me, statements like this sound more like someone repeating what someone else repeated what someone else repeated overhearing what someone else claimed they heard someone say they heard from someone that this was true. Personally, I think there's at least 50 percent hoo-haw in there. That said, I prefer the one-piece bridge type, and I'm looking at the new adjustable Wilkinson Gotoh...mostly for the look, the simple elegance of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Personally, I think there's at least 50 percent hoo-haw in there. That said, I prefer the one-piece bridge type, and I'm looking at the new adjustable Wilkinson Gotoh...mostly for the look, the simple elegance of it. ← What do you think is not true about it, and do you think there is a difference soundwise between the new Gotoh, and the ferrules with a TOM??? I'll probably either do that gotoh on the Warmoth site or the ferrules with TonePros bridge. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 [What do you think is not true about it, and do you think there is a difference soundwise between the new Gotoh, and the ferrules with a TOM??? I'll probably either do that gotoh on the Warmoth site or the ferrules with TonePros bridge. ← It's not that I think it's false, it's that I like to know if there's any proof that it's true. But I think the difference in terms of sound is probably minimal --it's not like the difference between a TOM and a strat-type trem, for example, which is all metal. One thing about ferrules though, they're a real pain to get done right... I just found that out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 The tone comes from the downwards pressure the strings put on the bridge, not from the ferrules. That applies to any brand of TOM. Do you guys agree or disagree with that some people say that string through guitars have more sustain than top loaded guitars. Just curious of what you think. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted July 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 It's not that I think it's false, it's that I like to know if there's any proof that it's true. ← Gotcha The tone comes from the downwards pressure the strings put on the bridge, not from the ferrules. That applies to any brand of TOM. Do you guys agree or disagree with that some people say that string through guitars have more sustain than top loaded guitars. Just curious of what you think. Jason ← I also would like to know this, I'd like to know soon for my newest project, whether I should have top-mounted or through body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 The tone comes from the downwards pressure the strings put on the bridge, not from the ferrules. That applies to any brand of TOM. Do you guys agree or disagree with that some people say that string through guitars have more sustain than top loaded guitars. Just curious of what you think. Jason ← you know...i hear this all the time.but i have never heard or felt a measureable difference in sustain due to any bridge type... quality of build...now that makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 quality of build...now that makes a difference. ← Yep, I agree with this one...especially the way the neck and body are mated, that seems to make a big difference. And definitely the scale length and type of construction --angled versus straight neck-- make big differences to the feel of the guitar. As for tone...pfft! There are so many other variables...and especially when you consider that your pickup choice and amp choice probably make the biggest difference there.... Not to mention the FX pedals you might decide to throw in there... And after that, there's the type of venue --your bedroom, your basement, some smell old bar filled with drunken biker types, or a community rec center with a bunch of kids running around and their grandmas and a handful of snotty teenagers with rasta hair suffering through your mid-aged-crisis-rock so they can watch their buddies' band up next.... The upshot, for me at least, is that the choice of bridge comes down to your preference in a) looks, ease of build, c) ease of use (i.e., keeping the tailpiece on when restringing), d) stability in tuning (trem vs non trem), e) perfectionist intonation, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian d Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Hey idch, I agree with you and Wes that the quality of build is of utmost importance, and the choice of bridge is secondary (or tertiary, or maybe quaternary?) in influencing the tone of the guitar. You were almost correct when you noted that when I said that strings through body will give more influence of the wood on the tone that it was "someone repeating what someone else repeated what someone else repeated etc." I learned it (along with the theory behind it) from an accredited master luthier, and it makes sense. My personal experience is too limited to support the concept, although FWIW, it does. I made no secret of the fact that I'm a newbie. My luthier friend, however, isn't. That said, he also said that the pickup has the most influence on the tone of the guitar followed by scale length, choice of woods (and of course the string itself), and that bridge construction plays an extremely subtle role. I know it's hard to prove one way or another considering that with an organic medium like wood, there's no way you can control all the variables enough to do a proper comparison. You may disagree with him that the bridge construction plays any role at all in the tone of the guitar - I think it's great that different builders do different things, but I'm going to make it one of the considerations when I choose a bridge. (right after stability in tuning, ease of use and appearance). Vive la difference! Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 quality of build...now that makes a difference. ← Yep, I agree with this one...especially the way the neck and body are mated, that seems to make a big difference. And definitely the scale length and type of construction --angled versus straight neck-- make big differences to the feel of the guitar. As for tone...pfft! There are so many other variables...and especially when you consider that your pickup choice and amp choice probably make the biggest difference there.... Not to mention the FX pedals you might decide to throw in there... And after that, there's the type of venue --your bedroom, your basement, some smell old bar filled with drunken biker types, or a community rec center with a bunch of kids running around and their grandmas and a handful of snotty teenagers with rasta hair suffering through your mid-aged-crisis-rock so they can watch their buddies' band up next.... The upshot, for me at least, is that the choice of bridge comes down to your preference in a) looks, ease of build, c) ease of use (i.e., keeping the tailpiece on when restringing), d) stability in tuning (trem vs non trem), e) perfectionist intonation, etc. ← OK I get it. So I think I'll go with the one piece... it seems that it'll be easier for me to use, and I can always drill two more holes and switch in a two piece if I'd like, because it won't have too much effect on the tone. Thanks all, and I hope it's not mid-life-crisis-rock I don't think I'm old enough yet! -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 I learned it (along with the theory behind it) from an accredited master luthier, and it makes sense. ← Well, I agree that it makes sense...but it's just a theory...that's my point. It'd be real cool if someone could design an experiment with a sound scientific basis to answer these questions, wouldn't it? I mean, your luthier learned this theory from someone -- he certainly didn't invent it --but that doesn't make it fact. And he could have chosen a different method for mounting the strings, and he could have justified that just as well using 'theory.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 BTW, could anyone give me a really good tutorial on putting on mounted bridges (on posts) and/or on drilling through the body w/ the ferrules? I know there're probably many, but you guys would probably know the best. Thanks, -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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