Is My Neck In Danger?

[GregP]

OK, after briefly perusing that Guitar Builders' thread, I'm suddenly paranoid. Part of the conversation back in September revolved around the correct order in which to do things when making a neck. Judging by some of the comments, I have effed up. Probably not irreperably, but I wouldn't mind some advice.

Here's the neck as it stands:

I have tapered BEFORE putting the fretboard on, which seems to be a point of contention with people. Now, I would normally prefer putting it on first; however, it is a pre-radiused fretboard and whatever way I could imagine doing it wasn't turning out to be easy. Plus, I don't have a bandsaw in order to hack through all that rock maple AND ebony at the same time when rough-cutting. I asked for some advice on my main thread, and it seemed as though the option I chose is at least acceptable... or not:

Now that the neck is tapered* (see note below), the idea was to glue the fretboard, and then rough cut the fretboard down to size, and then use a router to bring it to final size, flush with the existing taper of the neck. At that point in time, I would swap out for my binding router bit and cut the binding channel.

The other option given to me was to shape the fretboard completely before attaching it, so that I wouldn't need to go through the painful and dodgy process of using a router bit on ebony. The problem with that, and the reason so far I'm avoiding it is that I'm not confident that I'll shape it exactly the right size. I'd rather just cut the binding channel into it afterwards, so that I'll know it's 'perfect'.

Any comments, concerns, or advice?

A separate issue: I still need to inlay my fretboard markers. Should I do that before or after gluing the fretboard? Instinct tells me to do it before since if I royally screw up my fretboard I can just order another one.

*regarding the taper-- it's about 1-2mm wide right now, and I was thinking of keeping pretty close to that (I like a wide fretboard), but I do have a bit of "wiggle room" if needed.

Thanks,

Greg

[stiggz]

the way i did it was taper the neck to rough-ish dimentions then do the fret board to exact, get the staple gun out, lay 2 in the top and 2 in the bottom of the neck, get the fencing pliers out and cut em of at bout .5 maybe 1 mm, spread the beasts with glue then line up the center lines on FB and neck, then hit FB with heel of plam so staple stubbs go into the board so it cant slip while glueing, then get router bit with baring on the bottom and run it along the neck after all is glued

its a good idea to offset the router from the back of neck, run it along a straight peice of metal or wood so u can do the whole neck no troubles.

as for the inlays, are u doin dots or somthing bigger?? either way do it before u put the board on. bindings, rout once glued on, be too fidley trying to do it separately

thats the way ive done things, maybe not the most correct method but it works

luke

ps. probably my longest post yet ^ doesnt rival ur essays greg but its gettin there

[GregP]

Cheers for the reply. So what you're saying is that the fretboard is shaped to exact specifications and then you use IT (the fretboard) as a guide for bringing the rest of the neck to shape?

Regarding the inlay, it's larger-- standard LP-style block inlays.

That's your longest post yet? Looks like my short posts. <laff>

Greg

[Setch]

There is no *correct* order, and anyone who tells you there is is mired in rules. Obviously there are exceptions (try pressing your frets before slotting!) but for most steps there are at least half a dozen different approachs.

I usually taper the neck first, then taper the fretboard to match - using the straight edge and bearing guided bit technique. It's very easy to get them exactly the same, or at least close enought that 2 minutes with a cabinet scraper will remove any overhang or underhang.

I'd recommend:

-Place board on neck, and trace the neck taper with a sharp pencil.

-cut taper with router and straightedge, following the pencil line.

-Attach fretboard to neck with small bits of doublesided tape.

-scrape sides perfectly flush, and drill for index pins at 3rd and 15th fret.

-Remove fretboard, and run against your binding cutter to get correct width for binding.

-Glue binding and inlay board.

-Glue fretboard to neck (I fret it first, but I'm a freak).

-Scrape binding flush.

-Step back, admire days work.

[stiggz]

yep shape the board first, my way or do as setch has said, neck then board, its entirely up to u. personally i think binding a fret board alone is kinda fidley but im not gonna argue with some1 who is better than me, next time i might do things ur way setch, they seem to work

[Daniel Sorbera]

I don't see what the big deal is. I (on three necks so far, all turned out great) Taperd the neck and than attached the finger board preslotted. Than I used the neck as the "guide" for the bearing on the router bit to follow. That cuts the fingerbaord too the exast size of the neck.

I don't see how it would be any easier attaching the fingerboard before you taperd the neck.

[RGGR]

I don't see what the big deal is. I (on three necks so far, all turned out great) Taperd the neck and than attached the finger board preslotted. Than I used the neck as the "guide" for the bearing on the router bit to follow. That cuts the fingerbaord too the exast size of the neck.

So many builders, so many possible routes to go by. As long as you understand the pro's and cons of the different methods. Mix in your tools available to you and your mastered skill level.....and you should come to method that works best for you.

I glued pre-radius fretboard to tapered neck. Using neck as routing base. Routing fretboard wasn't difficult ......just scary. In next try I would probably use same method, but Robo sand fretboard to right size. The fear for tear-outs is simple there.

[mledbetter]

given what you have done, and the fact you don't have a band saw.. I'd cut the fingerboard on your table saw and leave yourself a mm or so extra material, glue it on and trim it up with a hand cutting tool. A small plane or scrapers as Setch mentioned. You'll have a lot more control and won't have to worry about under cutting it any. I'd be hard pressed to throw pre slotted ebony into the router bit.. It might be perfectly fine but i've ruined a few pieces of wood with tearout and i'd just rather true something up with a plane or scraper than rish ruining the whole thing.

Just don't leave too much wood though, ebony will take a little elbow grease to work flush to your maple

[GregP]

Cheers for the replies, folks. I'm not sure that I have a blade for the table saw that will be any gentler on the ebony than a router bit would. The one currently installed has fairly large wide teeth (for cutting large quantities of construction-grade material) and I'm fairly certain that it would rip the sh** out of the ebony even more than the router bit would.

Mostly, no matter what method I go with, I'm glad that other people have confirmed that I'm doing fine. It was just reading that thread and the lambasting that Litch got for attaching the fretboard after doing the taper.

I do have a scroll saw, but it's tricky to cut straight with. Still might be worthwhile for rough shaping and then I can use sandpaper/scrapers to bring it to flush. I don't have a robo-sander and there doesn't seem to be any place to get one locally. It seems like a great thing to have around so it's probably worth ordering one, but it's getting tiresome ordering from the States all the time.

Cheers for the replies!

Greg

[Setch]

It was just reading that thread and the lambasting that Litch got for attaching the fretboard after doing the taper.

←

Actually, Litch had attached the radiused, unprofiled fretboard to the unprofiled neck, after thicknessing the neck. It's hard to understand without the pictures, but he'd effectively removed all flat surfaces from his neck, without having done any of the shaping work. Staggeringly foolish, but pretty much par for the course.

[mledbetter]

keep in mind too that you can get all sorts of blades for the scroll saw.. the little hair thin detail blades will probably snap right and left with ebony, but you can get wider blades that won't be so prone to wander.

I have a robosander and it definitely has it's place. Very agressive though and leaves lots of scratches.

[Scott Rosenberger]

I rough cut my fingerboards to shape, then glue on. when it's dry I use my floor standing beltsander to sand the fingerboard back to the neck wood

[Devon Headen]

I seem to do it different than most here. First I lay out the fretboard, minus the width of the binding, directly on the wood. Then I use a tablesaw jig to trim the fretboard down. Then I bind the fretboard and glue it onto the neck. I don't like my chances at tearout taking a router to a slotted board. This approach just makes the most sense to me. I tried it a different way on my first guitar, and the width just wasn't accurate to my plans. YMMV.

EDIT:

I rough taper the neck before gluing the fretboard on, then just trim it to the fretboard with a plane.

[thedoctor]

If the binding is thick enough, does any of this matter? You would end up routing to the neck outline anyhow, wouldn't you? Maybe I missed something (like THAT has never happened before).

[Devon Headen]

Not me, the router never even touches my neck.

[fryovanni]

I ruff shape the neck (close). I shape the fret board, and bind if I am binding. I check the fit by lightly clamping. Tidy up the edges on the neck so they are really close. Apply glue, set my wedges, wrap string around neck+fretboard+wedges snuggly, then tap the wedges till it is firmly seated. The string seems to keep the edges aligned well and I alternate tapping each set of wedges so I don't drive the fretboard forward or backwards. I used to do the same only with clamps, but wedges and string work suprisingly well (thanks Neal M. for cluing me in). Oh yeah then as Setch mentioned, I use a scraper to do my final edge (very quick and easy).

I am more used to neck-thru and if I didn't shape the fretboard first it would be a bear to clean up the edges over the body. It would really spook me to use a router on a neck at this point, but I am kinda chicken sometimes.

Peace, Rich

[GregP]

Cheers for the replies. I can understand the benefits of all the various approaches, particularly with sizing the fretboard to accomodate the binding, rather than routing a binding channel. I simply worry that I don't have the right techniques or tools to be so precise with my fretboard.

I bought the Lee Valley tablesaw taper jig, so that'll do the bulk of my next neck (and like Devon, the router will barely if ever touch the neck), and for now I'm considering using it for the fretboard. I need to see if I can get a hold of a blade with the right kind of teeth so that I don't hack up my project, though. I know even less about table saw blades than I do about inlaying a fretboard, though, so I'm a bit gun-shy (visions of the board splintering into a thousand pieces as it contacts the blade).

So, as it stands, it's looking like I'm going to go with a slightly riskier (due to the tools I have available) procedure. Any final comments or alternative suggestions are still welcome, as I don't think I'm going to get to it tomorrow or anything... I've still got to inlay the fingerboard, which will be a long time in completing as well (I still need to practice on scrap before I get right in there).

Anyhow, the current decision unless intervening information changes it:

1. Bring the maple of the neck to near-final taper

2. Rough cut (after buying a less wandery scroll saw blade perhaps!) and then inlay the fretboard

3. Glue the fretboard using the 'snipped staples' (or 'snipped finishing nails') method of keeping it properly in place.

4. Use a sanding block OR orbital sander (depending on how much material I end up needing to remove) to get the ebony very close to the maple, but since I have no robo-sander, not bringing it flush.

5. Use a flush-trim router bit to bring it flush with the maple, praying mightily for few or no splinters. Hopefully the fact that it's glued up to the maple and already very close to the maple taper will lend it the extra stability and a "base" to help prevent splintering and chipping

6. Rout the binding channel.

Cheers,

Greg

[GregP]

As an aside-- it's no secret that I know I've bitten off more than I can chew with this project, but I'm stubborn enough to keep at it. Sure wish I had chosen more easily workable woods, and a much simpler project.

Once this one's done, whether it's a success or a failure, my next 3 or 4 will be much more simple.

Greg