borge Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 (edited) You can machine a piece of metal (Aluminum) to a sliding fit which is a tolerance of .0005 to .001 inch. And its funny... that fit does not change dramatically with temperature. Now in a piece of wood a close tolerance is 1/16 of an inch which is .0625 inches. and the reason is that wood size fluctuates greatly with temperature. This is the same reason why you cant solidly fix a top to a wooden table. It has to float or the table will split ← of course the fit wont change because all the peices of aluminium will change size by the same proportion because they are undergoing the same temp change. but the overall size of the peices will change. that said i know that with the average temp fluctuations in day to day life (night/day, summer/winter) will have an allmost unmeasurable effect on size steels have a CLTE of between .000009" and .000012" in/in eg if CLTE = .000012 10C change =.00012" size change per inch correct me if im wrong but i think in guitar builing this is negligable and the second paragraph i dont fully understand but im pretty sure my tables dont "float" Edited April 14, 2005 by borge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 You can machine a piece of metal (Aluminum) to a sliding fit which is a tolerance of .0005 to .001 inch. And its funny... that fit does not change dramatically with temperature. Now in a piece of wood a close tolerance is 1/16 of an inch which is .0625 inches. and the reason is that wood size fluctuates greatly with temperature. This is the same reason why you cant solidly fix a top to a wooden table. It has to float or the table will split ← of course the fit wont change because all the peices of aluminium will change size by the same proportion because they are undergoing the same temp change. but the overall size of the peices will change. that said i know that with the average temp fluctuations in day to day life (night/day, summer/winter) will have an allmost unmeasurable effect on size steels have a CLTE of between .000009" and .000012" in/in eg if CLTE = .000012 10C change =.00012" size change per inch correct me if im wrong but i think in guitar builing this is negligable and the second paragraph i dont fully understand but im pretty sure my tables dont "float" ← You haven't built a table? LoL Yeah that wasn't clear for someone you hasn't built one. When you build a table you have to clip the table top on using blocks of wood that have a small tennon the fits into the side of the table legs. (that doesn't make any sense either so just watch the new yankee workshop to get what i mean) My point was that aluminum would not be affected by temp as much as wood. Man this thread went on a tangent pretty quick,eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy_Squirrel Posted April 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Why don't you guys clean up your quotes...........darn it. Looks like a 3 year old took hold of your PC. And reason we build guitars out of wood is because we can light it after we screw up a project. Try that with your alum. monguls. ← I'm not three, damn you!... I'm four and a half, thank you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 You haven't built a table? LoL Yeah that wasn't clear for someone you hasn't built one. When you build a table you have to clip the table top on using blocks of wood that have a small tennon the fits into the side of the table legs. (that doesn't make any sense either so just watch the new yankee workshop to get what i mean) My point was that aluminum would not be affected by temp as much as wood. Man this thread went on a tangent pretty quick,eh? ← i have built a table. "that doesnt make any sense" damn right it doesnt i have no idea what "yankee workshop" is does wood shrink/expand with heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 You haven't built a table? LoL Yeah that wasn't clear for someone you hasn't built one. When you build a table you have to clip the table top on using blocks of wood that have a small tennon the fits into the side of the table legs. (that doesn't make any sense either so just watch the new yankee workshop to get what i mean) My point was that aluminum would not be affected by temp as much as wood. Man this thread went on a tangent pretty quick,eh? ← i have built a table. "that doesnt make any sense" damn right it doesnt i have no idea what "yankee workshop" is does wood shrink/expand with heat? ← A lot! When you put down a wood floor you have to leave a 1/2" gap all the way around at the walls thats how much it can expand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannoG Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 In an attempt to get back on topic somewhat, I'd advise SS (Mr. Squirrel) to do as RR says and get building. Aside from the debate about tonewoods/metal and all that, remember that each piece of wood is unique. While samples of the same type of wood will have similarities, there way too many variables in an organic product to be sure of getting tonal qualities dialed in as you seem to think will happen. If you bought twice as much wood as needed and built two otherwise identical guitars they would not sound identical. Close at best. This is good though, the quest for the Grail (of the moment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy_Squirrel Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 (edited) In an attempt to get back on topic somewhat, I'd advise SS (Mr. Squirrel) to do as RR says and get building. Aside from the debate about tonewoods/metal and all that, remember that each piece of wood is unique. While samples of the same type of wood will have similarities, there way too many variables in an organic product to be sure of getting tonal qualities dialed in as you seem to think will happen. If you bought twice as much wood as needed and built two otherwise identical guitars they would not sound identical. Close at best. This is good though, the quest for the Grail (of the moment). ← Has anyone purchased from this place? They have pretty good prices on guitar body blanks compared to some. I'm wondering about the quality. http://www.forloversofwood.com/us/instrumentFrame.html Also, does a one or two piece body make a difference? Edited April 16, 2005 by Scrappy_Squirrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 I have purchased from A&M. The white Limba they sent me is exceptional, and they were very accomodating for a special maple top I wanted. I didn't care about figure or bookmatching, since I'm painting opaque, so I got a bit of a deal on it. The maple top was actually a wee bit cupped when I got it. Nothing that couldn't be fixed 'in house', but worth mentioning, I guess. They're good with customer service, but you gotta phone them instead of e-mailing even though e-mail is an option. They just don't seem all that quick responding to e-mails. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 (edited) Also, does a one or two piece body make a difference? One piece body blanks tend to bit more expensive. Questions you have to ask yourself: * What kinda guitar am I building * What kinda finish will be on guitar There is school of thought that says one piece bodies are more prone to warping. if it would ever happen.....) Another school of thought will say that glue line in two/three piece body will take away some of the sustain of the guitar. I think it's all voodoo again. Although wouldn't build guitarbody out of more than 2-3 pieces.......but that's just me. Personally I think it's great having two piece body as they will be cheaper.....and you end up with glue-line that can come handy in further building process. I would not put two piece top on two piece body. I think 3 or 1 piece top would make more sense. Point you have to consider is how you are gonna finish your guitar. Clear finish or stain, would be nice with nice figure in top wood. Bookmatching set would do wonders. Solid finish....it really doesn't matter what's underneath, but again making butchers block or plywood body is questionable to me. I have read about awesome sounding two piece bodied/ three piece top LPs. I read compairing stories commenting on one piece bodies/one piece top sounding like crap. Meaning it's really all up for grabs. Edited April 16, 2005 by RGGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy_Squirrel Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 (edited) Hmmm, all good advice. I think I'll go with a 1 piece korina body, from A&M and a bookmatched or one piece top; after seeing that curly Bubinga top I couldn't help myself. Smitten. So, curly Bubinga it shall be! I'll also go with a quartersawn laminated korina neck, just for the purpose of stabillity, and a Brazilian rosewood fretboard. It seems that with a beefy 3/4" Bubinga top it would help counter any minor attempt at warping down the road (I hope). I've had several one piece guitar bodies in the past and they all seemed puperior in resonance and sustain. Mojo or not the one piece body placebo has made an impact on me. I've played around with the idea of a two piece body but...maybe next time. It will have a clear Nitro or oil finish. Possibly lightly stained. The body will be chambered. Any reason why cutting an "F" hole, or similar, in the top would kill it? Anyway, if anyone can see any reason why these woods shouldn't marry then speak now or forever hold your peace... Edited April 16, 2005 by Scrappy_Squirrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Hmmm, all good advice. I think I'll go with a 1 piece korina body, from A&M and a bookmatched or one piece top; after seeing that curly Bubinga top I couldn't help myself. Smitten. So, curly Bubinga it shall be! I'll also go with a quartersawn laminated korina neck, just for the purpose of stabillity, and a Brazilian rosewood fretboard. It seems that with a beefy 3/4" Bubinga top it would help counter any minor attempt at warping down the road (I hope). I've had several one piece guitar bodies in the past and they all seemed puperior in resonance and sustain. Mojo or not the one piece body placebo has made an impact on me. I've played around with the idea of a two piece body but...maybe next time. It will have a clear Nitro or oil finish. Possibly lightly stained. The body will be chambered. Any reason why cutting an "F" hole, or similar, in the top would kill it? Anyway, if anyone can see any reason why these woods shouldn't marry then speak now or forever hold your peace... ← As the saying goes "to each his own". It'll probably turn out great for ya. Be sure to post some progrss pics! Im looking forward to seeing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 Sounds like you have made some nice choices. Can't wait to see some pic's. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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