Is Common Sense Dying?

[Brian]

lovekraft, hehehee good answer bro Love it!

if you ask, "I'm a total noob - what should I paint my guitar with?", and you get an answer like, "Paint usually works - cake frosting, not so much...",

Drak, LOL sometimes us old timers find something new n exciting from the newbies that hit the forum and just go a running too but yeah loved that post of yours as well.......

I think it's just cool that a lot of the people around here stop to take in new and exciting idea's, revisit old ways and learn new one's for accomplishing the same or nearly the same results

We will always have somebody around that wants an answer instantly, the problem they will run into even after the answer is that they don't have what it takes to achieve their goals just like what Jeremy is trying to say

" Real Guitar Building is an art and patience is your most valuble tool"

[x189player]

well, teachers do indeed have to take the good with the bad, and they need patience, and a desire and even duty to help those in need. take it from me, i'm a teacher for a living (yes it's true, I don't play and build guitars for a living).

but teachers also are humans, and in order to survive they need to be able to vent the considerable frustration entailed in helping. if you don't complain, at least to get it off your chest, chances are you'll get fed up and quit helping.

I don't mind newbies, I don't mind dumb questions. I don't mind that people ask the same question over and over and have to be told to go look it up.

what I do mind is immaturity. this sometimes manifests as childish or hostile behavior, and that much is obvious. but the other way it manifests is as sheer ignorance of a subject along with more interest in fantasies about it than willingness to look around and see what people are doing.

For instance, the 14-year-old without a job who decides to build his first guitar, and comes up with a thousand dollar shopping list of all the best parts he 'needs' in order to make his first guitar, so he can learn to play. Is it surprising nobody is interested in givin him advice about which 500$ pickup to buy for a guitar that is a fantasy at best?

there's nothing wrong with armchair work, except that it gets annoying to people who are actually getting things done. Maybe some people need to be told to go find a beater basket case guitar for $100 and learn to build guitars by putting it back together.

But what do I know. When I was 14 I encountered a lot of adults who didn't want to take me seriously, or give me the chance to learn from their experience, and I hated it- so despite all my ranting above, I'm still likely to want to try to help. A lot of forum regulars are young, and some of them are quite accomplished and make amazing guitars better than I could- and a lot more have way more enthusiasm than results.

But yeah. immaturity is a way bigger problem than inexperience or ignorance. And I've met some 40-year-olds who were way less mature than some very serious 12-year-olds, so go figure. I'm glad this place has as open an attitude as it does.

[lovekraft]

I beg to differ - teachers (unless they have the misfortune to be working in public school) have no obligation to teach anyone who lacks the necessary motivation to learn. Add to that the fact that many of our "instructors" are volunteer professionals who are taking time out from their businesses (and thus, money out of their pockets) to help here, and it's hard to see how they're under any obligation here, particularly to lazy, surlly and extremely thick people who are more interested in not being disrespected than in learning how to make quality guitars.

If it comes down to a choice between experienced advice from people who might be totally unimpressed with me or well-meaning guesses from some really nice people who are trying to help, but lack the foundation to do so, I know which I would prefer. But that's just my opinion - as always, feel free to ignore it!

[Guitarfrenzy]

I tend to agree with both sides actually, there are times where I feel like Drak and want to help anyone who has a question. Then there are times when I wish we could delete some post for asking pointless questions. I don't have a problem with someone asking a genuine question after all that's what the forum is about, even if the question has been answered thousand of times. I can tell you from experience that if you learn something, then apply it, your tendancy to remember it is great. But if you learn something, apply it, then teach someone else, you'll almost never forget it the rest of your life. So really by teaching and taking the time to guide someone in the right direction, you are gaining just as much as the person your helping. Although you may not realize it at the time. Just my opinion.

By learning you will teach; by teaching you will learn.

Latin Proverb

[guitar_ed]

Personally, I don't mind an intelligent "newbie" question. But the vague and generic question on painting was so vague, and obviously no research done, that I chose not to respond.

And sometimes, I have trouble phrasing a search that will get me what I want. I think that on occaision, newbies probably have the same problem.

Guitar Ed

Experience comes from bad decisions. Bad decisions are the result of a lack of experience.

[GregP]

Lovekraft - you just agreed with my point, whether you intended to or not.

x189 - I'm a teacher, too. (and yes, in the public system!)

[jnewman]

I'm new (joined a month ago tomorrow) and I don't think I've said anything too stupid yet .

That said, I've spent a good bit of time on a lot of different forums (just not this one) and it does get kind of annoying sometimes when people ask really, really basic questions *in the wrong forums* as has happend several times recently. Then again, I guess you've just got to learn how to use forums somewhere, and maybe those people've never had a reason to use internet forums before and haven't really figured it out yet.

Then again, some people just haven't got a clue .

[LGM Guitars]

This thread has veered off topic to newbie questions again, I'm not just talking newb questions, I'm talking more about using some problem solving skills and learning a few things on your own, but anyway, I'm over my little hissy fit now

[Drak]

Me too!

[Daniel Sorbera]

what drak over his little hissy fit? No way!

[Drak]

We need a hissy fit emoticon.

[Daniel Sorbera]

We need a hissy fit emoticon. 

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Exatly!! That and a guy hiting himself on the thumb with a hammer!

[LGM Guitars]

Here's my hissy fit emoticon

If you don't like it, I'll have to

[metalcarver]

A couple of things to add.

We should all be a little aware of the medium, i.e. internet/electronic. A serious beginner is going to be allowed the same space as a casual surfer who kind of dabbles in making things. Praise, sarcasm, and humor don't always translate from the spoken to the printed word. A question that is asked and then gets no answer is kind of self policing, kind of stands out like a fart in church.

[Thoughtless 7]

Here's my hissy fit emoticon

If you don't like it, I'll have to

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XD!! The one being kicked in the sack is too funny!!