GuitarMaestro Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 I wonder if they've already researched the legality, though? As I already wrote they don't do something like that for the first time. They did very direct rip-offs of mackie mixing desks for example and were sued. I bet they will be sued again but and handle the situation the same again. They do it the Microsoft way. You steal something and sell it in big volumes and do your best to delay the court process. Afterwards you have made enough profit to easily pay your penalty and still make profit. And if it is even worse and you are not allowed to sell the product anymore you still have made enough money to make the whole story a win. Fair enough, GM. I have to admit, I have not much pity for Boss, though. They've been gouging young guitarists for years with shoddy effects pedals. Sure, some of their stuff is classic, but other pedals? Overpriced pieces of die-cast junk. I agree. I am no friend of pedals anyway. It's not that I have much pity for Boss. My reason is that I don't want to see the business world dominated by companies who use such unmoral and criminal business tactics. After all isn't M$ and friends bad enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 True dat, true dat. Regarding their technique, is there any documentation behind those claims? I don't mean to sound contrary or anything like that, I just know that there's so much rumour and speculation about a lot of things. Mackie, the very company you mention as having been ripped off, has been accused on other forums of having dodgy business practice as well. I'm in contact with some guys from Mackie, and I can say that from what I've seen, the opposite is true. Mackie seems to have a lot of integrity. However, that didn't stop people from making unfavourable claims against them without quoting any actual facts. Because I DO like Behringer products, I'd be curious to know if it's rumour or fact. I mean, I will never buy a Monster Cables product again because of THEIR business practices, but I've seen documentation that supports that stance. I don't mind that a company would use blatant ripping-off as a strategy, as long as it's been done legally. I'm not super law-abiding guy, but there are lines to be drawn on what I consider to be fair competition or whatnot. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester700 Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 The lawsuits are definitely real history. There was a Mackie one and one other I read of, but I can't remember the brand. But they've "copied" a LOT more than those. The thing is, if they make something look & act similar to another product but sell for less, that doesn't bug me (though it may sometimes be infringing - I dunno). After all, they could make a virtual clone of something that still sounds NOTHING like the original. But if they do illegal things in reverse engineering the guts - that's another story. We'll see if the new pedals are just lookalikes or also soundalikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 As Jester I can only say that I read about these lawsuits. Behringer is a company based in Germany so it is discussed in public arround here. I bet it won't be difficult to find articles via google backing that up. I just don't have the time right now. The point in in these accusations was not that Behringer copied the functionality or sound of something but reverse engineered it and copied it directly. In building audio electronics the research and optmizing of the device is the biggest cost factor in developement and that is where Behringer saves big money that way and makes them able to sell at way lower prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Reverse-engineering is definitely a no-no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 im stuck in a bit of a fix over everse engineering lol. clearlly i don't prodice pedals on a mass scale (yet) but i can't say that ive never looked at schems for production pedals to see how and why they did things a certain way. tho what would it be if you're improving them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 The Bananas at Large site has a long list of products (including Behringer pedals) that you can pre-order. The projected delivery date simply says "First quarter of 2005." I'm not a huge fan of Behringer, but those prices look real tempting! D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Does anybody else see the delicious irony of a European company "cloning" an Asian manufacturer's product? It's too funny - next thing you know, Gibson will be making TS-9 copies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Heh, I never actually made that connection. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Okay, I understand who owns what, but I never really considered Behringer to be European. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mailloux Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 The company is german but all their products are built in asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Kinda like Epiphone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoughtless 7 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 So...when are these meant to be hitting the shops? Anytime soon? >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 ...The Bananas at Large site has a long list of products (including Behringer pedals) that you can pre-order. The projected delivery date simply says "First quarter of 2005."...← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoughtless 7 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) Ahh..thanks i'm sure i read it as 'Q2 2005' the first time around >_> Which made no sense to me at all. Edited February 26, 2005 by Thoughtless 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dugz Ink Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Well... I figured it would happen: Behringer Sued By Roland (Boss) ... Behringer announced the launch of a line of guitar effects pedals which replicate the distinctive design features of the BOSS pedals with such painstaking detail that the Behringer pedals are nearly indistinguishable from the BOSS pedals. Roland contends that this is no coincidence ... So... Roland pretty much said "yeah, their pedals look and feel just like ours"... and they did it on their own web site! In a manner of speaking, they just told everybody that the Behringer pedals are comparable to Boss pedals. DOH! If I ran Roland, I would start by shooting the person who put together that release, then I would start an ad campaign that portayed Boss/Roland owners as "real" musicians. But, I'm not in charge... and you see what happens. D~s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 So does this mean they won't hit the market? I'm waiting to jump on a tremolo. Someone post here the MINUTE you get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted March 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 http://www.mmrmagazine.com/news.html#roland Seems as though Behringer have touched a nerve. Whoever mentioned that they've done stuff in the past without authorization may have been right after all. However, the question remains-- have Behringer actually done anything illegal? The pedal housings are OEM and cannot be trademarked, colours cannot be trademarked, the font used is not trademarked, and it would be difficult to prove that any technology was stolen (distortion isn't exactly rocket science, for example). I'm sure Roland/Boss would have to at least TRY, but it says on all the Behringer literature that they are NOT affiliated with Boss in any way. So how are Roland going to be able to win a case? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 I think it comes down to "trade dress" which is the appearance of the pedals, and their close resemblance to the Boss stuff. Yeah you can't trademark the box, colors, fonts, knobs etc but if they are combined to look like Boss pedals, then Roland may have a case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Those pedals prices are nice but if they sound ANYTHING like my v-amp I dont want any part of it. I'll just stick with my expensive boss thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted March 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 It's all subjective anyhow, but it's not likely they'll sound like your V-Amp, since there's all likelihood that it'll be transistors, capacitors, diodes, whatever the hell the use to make these things... rather than digital. (obvious exceptions notwithstanding). If you hate your V-Amp that much, I'll buy it off you for cheap. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 If you hate your V-Amp that much, I'll buy it off you for cheap. wink.gif haha no. Thats the only thing I'm running off of right now so I guess I'm stuck with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonkey Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 tho what would it be if you're improving them? ← A good business idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezifon Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 boss sues behringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorecki Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 I was wondering if Behringer was gonna get slapped for the obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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